To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

Millions haven’t earned though!

When you've had to live on a state pension and a small occupational pension (25 years service) like myself you might understand how every financial decision is a major headache.
There is no prospect ( as there is when you are younger) of possibly picking up some extra income to help out.
In the 1980"s when my DC'S were small I tried to co tinned to work full time, most of my salary was eaten up by paying for a Nanny to child mind, no subsidised childcare then! So I had to give up my career prospects and do low paid evening and temp work which was the case for many women of my generation.
It's very easy to judge when you have no idea how life was for people who are pensioners now.

Do you think tax will come down with the removal of the triple lock, because it won't.

Triple lock should go (should only ever have been a double lock IMO). Means testing, on the other hand, is a bad idea. It will turn the state pension into just another form of UC. And either you will remove entitlement from enough people to save money, in which case you will cause genuine hardship somewhere along the way, or you won't, in which case you'll probably spend more doing the means testing than you save

Out of interest, did you allow for both inflation and also the time value of money?

You paid your early NI contributions up to 50 years before you drew your pension, so the stare had the value of that money, which they could use to grow the economy.

It would be interesting to know how much you would have grown your NI contributions to by 67 if you had invested them in the ftse 100 each month.

If you've still got your spreadsheet, chatgpt would work that out for you in an instant.

The state pension IS NOT a benefit. It is an income that your NI payments entitle you to. Universal Credit is a benefit paid for by government borrowing and other people’s taxes.
A simplistic explanation I realise but please please stop calling pensions a benefit. That explanation is why my grandfather who worked from the age of 14 stuggled to take his as he felt it demeaned him, when he had to retire.

Means testing is a very bad idea. Getting rid of the triple lock seems reasonable. Younger generations have had to make sacrifices with stagnant wages, high housing costs etc. The burden needs to be shared.

Hellooo!!! Some of us edging towards retirement are enduring stagnant wages just the same and have done so for quite some time.

So... Maybe give back a bit?? Just a fucking 'bit' ffs

The top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax. The top 10% of earners (about £70k income) pay 60% of income tax.

Most other taxes are also progressive (council tax, stamp duty, IHT etc) and so mainly paid by higher earners.

The rest are in proportion to how much you buy (VAT, fuel duty)... and the whole point of having more money is to buy more (overall, in time) and so those people will - when they buy things - pay more of those taxes too.

Our tax take is more skewed towards higher earners than other European countries, even the Nordics. You can see that on this graph.

Welfare state shouldn't mean that higher earners pay the most in and get absolutely nothing out.

And what defines higher earners as historically it has meant ridiculously anybody above £50k? Would love to know how anybody on £50 or £60k can save the hoards of money needed for a pension equivalent to the state pension, fund uni with ever increasing amounts due to loans not covering maintenance fees at increasing rates, private healthcare to pick up the holes in the NHS and care for elderly parents. How?

So you lied. This is just another benefit bashing thread. The end of the triple lock will mean poorer pensioners will be even poorer. Means testing is a race to the bottom and thresholds are inevitably set so low that those over them by a few pence will lose out on needed support. You seem to forget that despite the flashy headlines, not all pensioners are rich, and any cuts affect everyone. Grow up.

As for the pensioner relative, at £7.5k/month from personal and stare pensions, he's paying £23k in income tax. That's more than the starte pension he's getting - so it's already being means tested away.

In fact, the level at which someone becomes a net contributor is around £45k income - which yields £6.5k tax and 2.5k NI.

So his £23k tax is actually covering his entire state pension plus making him a net contributor from the remaining tax.

The younger generation aren't supporting him, OP. He is still supporting you, despite being a pensioner.

And if we’re going to be penalised if we have private pensions people are simply going to stop paying into them and spend the much needed money they’re putting into private pensions to mop up the holes from student loans for kids, the NHS, elderly parents and all the other demands on those edging towards retirement are experiencing. Why would you pay into a private pension when the money is needed now and you’ll be penalised in retirement because of it?

Precisely so its all nonsense
Ohhh Im announcing the end of the TL but wait,only after the next election !!!
How marvellous am I Burnham is doing nothing about TL, nothing at all but crowing about it anyway
Hes giving serious TB vibes and Im a Labour voter

Can’t stand jealousy over people’s wealth. It’s pathetic.

Nowhere near on ‘average’, you are deluded if you think all pensioners have a private pension!

People love saying “Tax the rich” but then object when the rich are old.

Well that’s a bit silly to say and one wonders if you are a Labour voter. If he just pulled it out of the bag after election he’d be crucified. Although I disagree with the op in hugely grateful we now have an honest leader who actually stands by what he believes in and is best for the country as opposed to just appeasing backbenchers continuously with little thought for the country- looking at you Tories.

Well, they’re also talking about reforming PIP, again, and various means tested entitlements. 🤷‍♀️

To try and reduce the amounts.

They will (apparently) just make pensions a ‘double lock’ from 2030, over time.

I really can’t see any of this getting through a Commons vote though.

As ever, it’ll be just a lot of talk.

WWE have saved hard for our retirement and not had nice cars or flash holidays. According to OP we should be penalised for not being feckless. . . .

The wrestlers? They are the last people on earth I would trust with money.

Completely wrong. This comes up time and time again. The state pension absolutely is a benefit and has always been. It’s been legally defined as a contributory social security benefit since 1946, under the foundational legislation National Insurance Act 1946. It continues to be defined as such under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 and the Pensions Act 2014. It’s funding comes from the same general public funding source and legislative framework as other contributory social security benefits - NI contributions..

The only reason UC is outside this framework is because it is a non contributory means tested benefit, and funded from a mix of general taxation and other funding, rather than NI contributions.

You are right. The OP has just made up some numbers.

@ThePelican read through the thread