To be glad triple lock going and hope they means test it too

[Randomamsi]

I have a multi millionaire senior relative who receives £1,400 from the state pension each month, in addition to 6k private pension.

He's not means tested and he's received that for 30 years. Yes, he paid into the system but he does not need it!!! He also had free uni, dirt cheap first house back in the 60s and retired aged 59.

Meanwhile the younger generation:

• thousands in student loan debt
• asset poor as can't get on the housing ladder
• means tested for child benefit, tax free childcare etc
• working until late 60s/ 70s

Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?

For vulnerable pensioners at risk of poverty, there should obviously be provision to help them, I'm not suggesting we let people starve. But multimillionaire pensioners or very asset rich pensioners do NOT need the state pension. It's about time things changed.

So if you buy a pair of shoes and pay them off over 3 months through Klarna, it would be ok for someone to take them away,saying you already have shoes, you don't need two pairs, or a refund either.......!

Your relative has paid NI for up to 50 years and you really think he shouldn't get his pension? Wow !! I hope someone denies you your legally entitled income one day too. Your ignorance and spite are breathtaking.

Thankfully any political party that tried to means-test state pensions would catapult themselves into oblivion, and rightly so.

I will receive my state pension in 4 years. I have 45 years NI paid and have had some sort of job since I was 13. I was a net contributor and paid higher rate tax for 37 of those 45 years.

I don't mind the triple lock being removed because it (and the double lock that preceded it) have served their original purpose of increasing the value of our state pension from the pittance that was paid in the 1980s.

The UK economy is facing significant issues, and returning to the double lock is a proportionate policy.

Your relative will get £80,400 year, minus £19,588 Income Tax and £5,974 National Insurance yearly.

That works out to net pay of £54,837 or £4,569 75p per month.

That's hardly "multi-millionaire" territory !

Their tax is probably paying your Child Benefit.

What maintenance do you get from the child's father BTW?

This actually does make me feel pleased. I'd prefer a state pension of 0, but it's nice to be less bad than our neighbors.

Definitely a reasonable stance. I think people forget that resources are finite and that these excessively rich people live a very fine life only because poorer people exist to provide it. Someone has to build the hotels, the mansions, someone has to clean their mansions, someone has to remove their waste, someone has to fix their plumbing, someone has to create art for them to enjoy and someone 'has to' serve them food and wine.. and so on. Everyone can't be millionaires so this is made possible for a relative few only by ensuring the vast majority aren't. And that's by design.

So... Maybe give back a bit?? Just a fucking 'bit' ffs.. and maybe without whining about it too.. if possible?

We have similar concepts already. You'd be furious if an alcoholic was given a liver transplant ahead of you or a loved one who had never even touched alcohol.

But they paid into their NHS same as us and it's been stated alcoholism is a disease.

Decisions have to be made with shared, finite resources. Difficult decisions.

It's their 'fault' they became millionaires and they shouldn't be able to 'take an organ' from someone who needs it more. Even though yes; they paid for it and are entitled.

Take emotion out of it and think logically and fairly 'for the good of society'.

Always happy to hear other viewpoints, if they're put across calmly and politely.

@Randomamsi Why do pensioners have it easy while younger ones pay the price?
What makes you think that pensioners have it easy? I'm a pensioner and worked for 40 years for everything I have now, starting at aged 15.
I put myself through college to get a qualification by working p/t in the holidays.
I got a job with the NHS but paid 1/3 of my salary in tax, NI, graduated pensions and superannuation.
I was able to buy a small property and now have a State pension and a (small) NHS Pension.
I'm not exactly ripping up trees yet you would begrudge me what I have worked for?

This is crab mentality, the solution to your issue is not pulling over people down and wanting the state pension to be reduced or means tested.

At that level of income, your relative will be a higher rate tax payer. They are probably putting far more into the system than you or your peers. Over the years, they will have been paying in far more than they are getting out. Why is that a problem for you?

If I understand that correctly, then a couple in Australia owning assets, including a home and savings, worth more than £600,000 would get no State Pension. None. Nothing.
How can that be an incentive to work hard and save money?

Just out of interest, and because I love spreadsheets, I once calculated how much NI contributions I had paid in over my working career, and what I will likely receive as a State Pension, making lots of assumptions about investment returns, capital growth, inflation, etc.

I was in the top 10% of salary earners (NI contributors), and I will just about receive the same money back as I put in over 40 years. Or to put it another way, 90% of people will receive sognificantly more as State Pension than they ever paid in as NI contributions.
An interesting thought.

If you must start goady, ageist threads, you could at least spend 90 seconds to get your facts right 😡

The full new UK State Pension is approximately £1,045.63 per month

The full Basic (old) State Pension is approximately £801.23 per month

"But I've seen the bank statements!" Bullshit in a bucket of batshit, Goady.

Well it does depend a lot on how long you live. What assumptions did you make about lifespan?

@SeriaMau apparently over 20% of NI contributions go the NHS, and another portion on other benefits, so your payback is way less than 40 years.

The state pension is unaffordable. It should be means tested. ALL benefits should be means tested. But if someone does have the full 35 years of stamp (why is it only 35 years? That needs to go up to 45 years) then they should receive a little something, like £100 a month.

The country is broke, spending £10 billion a month on interest payments alone, but usually having to BORROW that money every month to pay out in interest costs.

It’s time for the asset rich to look after themselves.

The Great Britain National Insurance Fund (NIF) does exist, and is self-sufficient although the balance sheet's looking a tad precarious.

Money has been taken out for other 'social security' purposes when it was showing a big surplus. At present, ~20% of your NI contributions go to the NHS and the rest to the NIF.

The NIF pays pensions, ESA, PIP, Maternity Allowance and Jobseeker's Allowance (not the other elements of UC).

Closing Balance
£79.3 billion
Baseline balance (held predominantly in the NIF Investment Account).
Projected Balance
£101.6 billion
Forecasted increase fueled by the employee and employer tax adjustments.
Annual Receipts
£138.3 billion
Driven overwhelmingly by National Insurance Contributions (NICs).
Annual Payments
£145.3 billion
Outflows to fund core UK statutory social safety protections as above.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-insurance-fund-accounts/great-britain-national-insurance-fund-account-for-the-year-ended-31-march-2024#receipts-and-payments-account

Completely agree OP. Means tested, and raised a bit for the poorest pensioners in line with European levels. Benefits should be for those in need.

The argument ‘they were promised it’ doesn’t wash with me. I think my generation mostly feel like this (mid 40s) as we haven’t got anything ‘we were promised’ and don’t think like that. This argument just strikes us as the essence of that generation’s selfishness, and completely devoid of social conscience.

Out of interest can you clarify how his multimillions are made up? Does he have one valuable home or a portfolio of property?
Does he have lots of investments, if yes they would produce income, and as you've only mentioned his pensions, I'm wondering if he's sitting in a house in Hampstead Heath and that is his only asset?

Well those of us in our 50s certainly feel we were promised and paid in. If we knew we weren’t going to get a state pension I’m not sure I’d have bothered paying in to pensions and would have frittered it away on more exciting tbings. I think some need to experience going without to keep private pensions going first before they judge.

My dad gets £17k per year state pension. However, he doesn’t have an occupational pension like your dad. Your dad would have been contracted out of SERPS due to his occupational pension.

it’s also worth pointing out that many of us paid into SERPS (and it’s replacement S2P) until 2016 although we won’t get a higher pension under the new system when we eventually retire. It’s therefore surprising that so many people don’t know what it is.

Hilarious… you think you are so clever. If only you had done a bit more research and realised that the old state pension is not a fixed amount. Due to SERPS, it can be a lot more than the figure you quote. My dad gets around £17k per annum.

Or a more sensible rationalised welfare spend. We need to optimise what we spend first before always looking to increase the tax take.

Bound the duration unemployment support covers to 6 months.

Stop topping up salaries (particularly P-T salaries).

Stop council houses being for life.

All sensible things that would get people working, get people into financially viable jobs or work patterns, and stop haemorrhaging cash on housing setups that aren’t in reach to most in the private sector (e.g. there’s no way someone needs to retain a family sized house after their family have flown the nest).

Reading about the 'ratchet' - extremely high inflationary periods like after Russia invaded Ukraine, which artificially boost pensions under the triple lock - it isn't on. I think the proposals are great.

Also they are never going to be stupid enough to means test. Why would you do that when you can just tax instead? People already turn down jobs or make working decisions to keep their taxes down every day. Pensions are no different.

I agree, and I'm about to become a pensioner with a very small workplace pension. I have kids in their 30s though who both work long hours. The triple lock sits heavy on their shoulders through tax, as do student loan payments, ridiculous rent and house prices etc.

I think I pay into ‘the state pension’ as a total fund for the common good, not as a benefit to myself were I not to need it.

I don’t think OP is suggesting it be capped at the level of benefits, but to prevent millionaires who have huge assets and large private pensions from claiming.

@ExpectMorethat doesn’t work with an ageing population though which is the point.

OP said he had £1400 for 30 years, if he had £1,400 this month, it wouldn't have been that for every month for the last 30 years because of rises you get each year, so how did she see £1400, say 20 years ago or even 5 years ago.