DD18 and DH48 arguing

[13amielsaoranna]

First post ever.

This afternoon, dd18 and dh48 who is the father of dd had an argument over what seemed like nothing.
I will say that dd can be argumentative at times and winds me up at times, also I feel dh treats her differently to ds17 who is quiet and laid back and never really argues. This argument ended in dh roaring and shouting at dd who does stand up for herself, dh is screaming at her to 'shut up' and he can't stand her answering back. He leaves to go out somewhere in the car, she goes up to her room, she later comes down very upset, and is crying quite alot, I will say that dd is not a cryer and it was a shock to see her like this.
I feel like an arsehole because if I saw a much older man shouting this way at at 18yr old girl/young lady in the street I really think I would have stepped in and asked if she was okay/needed help. Yet for my own daughter I stay in the adjacent room and listen to it escalate for a minute. Im not at all scared that my dh would ever be physical with dd or myself, I know he would never do that, yet I feel like I should have gone through to diffuse the situation but maybe I subconsciously never as I know he would turn on me and say I always take her side.
I will say my dh is 99% of the time a quiet man, doesnt like drama but I feel over the yrs he's turning into his dad, can't take a joke anymore, feels like any banter at work is people picking on him and just lacks the ability to have a laugh at himself anymore.
Not sure what my aibu is, but I'm still dwelling on it, and I know he is, he hasn't even gone up to say goodnight to them or shout up goodnight to them, despite their age it's what he does but not tonight!

I worry if I died, and dd in the future had a boyfriend/partner/husband who screamed and shouted at her like this, would she just accept this as normal because her own dad has treated her like this a couple of times, and not feel able to tell her dad about it.

We're all just carrying on as if nothings happened, last time he lost his temper he felt awful and apologised. I hate this situation.

my dad and i got on well but my goodness we would have have liads of arguements/debates but he never shouted at me like dh did to dd. Advise??

I also think your DD should be told (in the same way that your DH should be told) that her behaviour is upsetting to others and she should think about how she treats the family (and the family’s spaces/resources).

even so.

Why would you not go through and say sorry i didn't hear you correctly - what did you just say?

Thankyou

I read the title and thought "I'd definitely grown out of arguing with my parents by then" and was expecting to err on the side of the husband but fuck me, it's no wonder she hasn't learned to resolve issues like a grown up is it?

Perhaps instead of dh saying "don't answer back/I hate u answering back" or whatever he needs to change and say "I'm not arguing with you/it's not up for debate/you're being rude" and then take himself away or sit himself back at the piano and play and ignore

You need to not then placate her by saying dh was out of order for shouting etc you are not really in a good position as you're playing both sides - being silent in the moment as you don't want to be shouted at either & then saying after that DH is wrong.

I think if I were you I would tell DH he needs to discuss the argument with her to resolve it "I'm sorry for losing my temper, it was wrong to shout loudly and I will work harder to calm down in the moment and not to argue and shout down. I felt disrespected and that you were being demanding and bossy by wanting the piano and then snapping at ds about wanting the kitchen. It was rude and like you wanted a fight/not satisfied with one thing" idk something like that. But ultimately not your responsibility really, teens and parents argue. He needs to encourage healthy debate not see it as answering back, but she was being disingenuous about the piano and clearly trying to point score. Teens !!!

There's a "how to talk so teens can listen" book, I've also read this one which is very good and there's threads on mumsnet about how useful others have found d it

Was she demanding, entitled in this piano/kitchen scenario, yes and no, she really wasnt wanting dh to jump off it, could her tone have been nicer to her bro about using kitchen, yes and she admits to this.
She honestly isn't the golden child and I don't think shes spoilt, not with material things, both the kids hardly ever ask for things apart from bday xmas when I ask them to. She is more polite than ds, will slways thank us for giving her a lift, making a meal for her, taking her driving practising, ds needs prompted sometimes.
I think like my dad and brother they got on far better when he wasnt living at home I think same will be true for dh and dd. Dd relationship eith her bro is fantastic they're very close.
Please explain how you think she is spoilt.

Family rows are very upsetting but they do happen. Maybe it’s a lesson to them both in when to understand the need to back down and to apologise for the sake of family harmony.

Your DH is not necessarily at fault here, it sounds as if your DD could/should have read the room better. It takes two to tango.

Because you’ve repeatedly said you let it slide when she speaks to you poorly because you don’t want the argument. She’s (probably unwittingly) trained you to not challenge her. Spoilt doesn’t necessarily mean materially.

There's shouting and there's shouting and I don't think absolutely roaring is acceptable. I agree with what you've said about how he can deal with it better.

I will look into that book thankyou.

Ultimately we all need to clear the air, and I take on board what a few posters have said about being respectful about shared spaces etc

Does the household always have to bow down to your daughter? I see you have nothing to say about her nipping at her brother. Your daughter has to realise she is not a Princess. She is about to go out into the big wide world, lets see how she gets on when she demands he own way. Your husband has obviously reached the end of his tether with her.
Have you ever thought she needs to apologise at times ?

She does get told to cool it if she yips at her brother. In school/6th form/the big wide world she wouldn't say boo to a goose, she only is like this at home.

And that is because she is the Princess. i wonder if your son was able to be 100% honest, what his story would be.

They are super close and protective of each other, I don't think siblings yipping at each other is anything out of the ordinary

I do wonder what sort of people think that behaviour is acceptable? Clearly some very low standards
girls will accept this behaviour if their mothers do nothing

He sees her pointing out a pure truth as disrespectful because it makes him feel stupid but she’s right. She didn’t ask him to get off the piano.

Sounds like he has a big ego and wants her to kowtow to him as though hes the king of the house. She’s a modern woman who sees that as patriarchal bull and she fights her own corner. He can’t understand arguing his point with his parents because they probably hit him as a child and that made him afraid of them and he has to tell himself it’s the natural way of the world or accept that he was mistreated.

I'm truly not seeing how anything she did was entitled or demanding she merely asked a question about the piano and about her brother being in the kitchen none of that would have set me off or bothered me at all
I would have said something like I'll be done in 30 minutes or an hour about the piano and then with the kitchen I would have just said I'll be done in about 15 minutes then you can have it it's just called clear communication instead of waiting around and guessing what two grown men are going to do

My dad would pull that short of bs as well like the piano. She hadn’t asked for it now she had enquired about when it might be free.

Then he did the big grand gesture of giving up right now. So nice and so loving. To then be held against her.

She might not of even wanted it for another half an hour or hour. But because dad gave it up she then has to use it at that moment otherwise that’s a problem. I stopped for you and now you aren’t even using it. So ungrateful and so on.

I'm not sure what stopped you - did you freeze? Because that does suggest there's more to how you feel about your husband.

If I heard anyone screaming at my child, friend, family member, or stranger, I wouldn't be able to stand by and listen to it.

She's not saying this behaviour is acceptable, I think she was pointing out that you wanting me and DD to escape and break up a family over an argument was an over reaction, and I agree, especially since half the posts think dd is to blame

I think by the time I realised it was shouting not larking around it was too late, as it came out of nowhere, I wasnt listening to it for any length of time, I think by the time I thought how on earth has that escalated it was all over. If id have run through at the first part of raised voices id have caught the end of it, but raised voices doesnt necessarily mean an argument, sometimes they're all just messing about. I do wish i had been in the room when it started

⬆️⬆️

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if your dd had ‘pushed his buttons’ or acted like a ‘princess’ or was ‘controlling’ or ‘bratty’ or any of the other labels stated on this thread…he used male privilege - i.e. power, volume, intimidation, physicality to pummel a teenage girl into submission because she used ‘words’ he didn’t like.

He’s a bully and a shit role model. So next time she’s in a situation where she might want to say no to a man, maybe she’ll keep quiet and get what she’s given. That’s what he’s modelling to your daughters. A good dad would encourage his daughter’s spirit and independence. He’d disagree agreeably.

No one is saying it is okay for him to have shouted like that. You’re just agreeing with everyone there.

But if you’ve read the descriptions of the DD she sounds pretty unpleasant and has much to work on herself. As does OP who seems to give her a free pass to be rude because she likes the fact that she is confident in doing so. That’s a separate issue but still important.

i just don’t get how any mother could think that was acceptable
your husband sounds awful and you sound like you don’t care - he will do it again and again and it’s damaging - this is the point

She does have to work on herself but generally she isn't an unpleasant person at all, she doesnt have a 'free pass' to be rude.
I have said I like thats shes able to stand up for herself, would you want your adult child to just sit there and take every telling off given to them, deserved or undeserved. I'm glad shes not meek and won't tolerate being shouted at, yes, why wouldn't I, but a line will get crossed sometimes. We are not always 100% right just because we are an adult.