AIBU to worry CMS deductions could push my son into crisis?

[Wokeuptired]

My son split from his ex almost 2 years ago, they have 2 children together and 1 child that my son brought up as his own, their was lots of drama in the relationship and his ex was very demanding, my son paid her maintenence every month and paid for other things for her like the sky bill and some h/p goods, at the end of last year my son took a very serious attempt at taking his own life and he got sectioned, he obviously couldn't work but his ex was still demanding money from him, In March he got his old job back but he had to save for a deposit and furniture as well as pay for prescriptions food fuel to get to work, he was around £200 short each month and we helped him out with that, during this time his ex refused to let him see the children and he has not seen them since January, he had an upcoming court case to get to see them, as the eldest isn't his biologically he had to get a lawyer to help him as he wants her included.
Now the CMS are involved and they have taken £1700 out of his wages this is £700 for the month and £1000 in back pay as they calculated this from December last year, this leaves my son with around £500 after tax, he can't live on £500 as he can't even cover his rent with that, he has just got himself sorted financially but still owes money.
He doesn't know what he can do as he has phoned CMS and they said it has to be that amount and he explained the situation.
He has been to his boss to see what can be done and if he leaves this job he will break his contract with them and they won't employ him again, he can't go part time and then do work on the side to make the money up.
He just can't afford to work, it's ridiculous as he doesn't want to go on benefits as he also pointed out that it won't help his mental health.
What can he do?
I'm just so worried that he is going to try and end his life again as this seems like a no win situation.

@bigboykitty Op later clarified she was referring to the CMS paperwork prior to his payslip, she only saw the pay slip after the thread had begun.

No reason to think she is being disingenuous.

Money is stressful, having an adult child who is at risk of self harm/suicide is stressful. Divorce/separation is stressful. Humans who are stressed make errors.

OP said twice she’d seen all the paperwork. What she also said was that she had not seen the payslip. Which is where her DS made the mistake. She’s clarified that several times, including a time line of the events. The OP’s account is only questionable if you haven’t read all of the updates and haven’t appreciated that she meant she had seen the CMS paperwork - which was correct - and not the payslip, which is where her DS made the mistake.

He should pay the minimum required by law and not pay for any extras until he gets sorted out financially. He needs to go back again to the CMS or try to contact Citizens Advice. Although I'vd heard they ard really hard to contact these days. And get the third child taken off the claim. Time to play hard ball imho.

it is an argument seen on here - and out in the real world - too many times. Having a better off ex doesn't mean you shouldn't pay maintenance.

Thanks, I've read the thread. I don't agree with your interpretation. That's still allowed, I presume.

I read OP’s last update. That makes more sense!

So you hadn't seen the paperwork when you were insisting you had, despite so many people saying those figures couldn't possibly be correct.

It's good you've had advice here, and that you're going to visit him to give him practical (and emotional) support. If you end up with more questions, you need to be completely honest next time, or you might not get the correct advice.

This. Op your son is not being honest with you.

CMS take 16% they are not taking 25% of his salary. And to have built up a 9k backlog he wasnt just not paying during a period out of work, they'd have adjusted his payments in that situation and he certainly wouldn't have built up 9k arrears. Suspect if he were to show you ALL the official paperwork its not quite the picture he's been painting you

Sounds like his poor ex has been having to cover all the costs of raising their children entirely on her own for quite some time and your first response is to think its all unfair on your son 🤔

OK, so since April wha thas he been doing with the money that he would have been paying her? He was planning on continuing to give her £600 a month when he started working, she said not as CMS were handling it. When CMS didn't immediately take the money from him, what did he do with that money instead? One way or another, he's not paid anything towards his children between April and August, which means he's had £600 a month extra for 5 months.

Hold on a minute hes £9k in debt to the mother of his children and his MH is so bad that he's suicidal and your bad mouthing the mum for taking him to the CMS and safeguarding her children from him, all whilst you are trying to think of ways to get him off the hook for maintenance including him committing benefits fraud (claiming UC and working cash in hand on the side) and hes trying to get access to a child who he is not related to
Are you having a laugh your son is failing behaving attrocously towards his children and his ex and you are cheering him on
Quite frankly the fact that hes now struggling instead of his children is only because he didn't pay what he should have for almost a year and now its coming straight out of his wages so he can't mess his ex and kids about anymore as it should be and if hes a risk to himself then hes an even bigger risk to those children and he shouldn't be anywhere near them especially the 1 thats not his

You edited your reply. I was replying to the first thing you said.

Yes, of course. The bank are very likely to lend money to someone who’s been sectioned for mental health and in hospital. Any friend lending him money would have scant hope of getting it back if he’s not earning. And OP has already said the bank of mum and dad is stretched as far as it can go in supporting him to be independent again.

There’s a reason that CMS don’t calculate arrears over periods when NRP’s aren’t earning - it’s because you can’t pay what you don’t have. And the resident parent in this case is working and claiming child benefit. If she wasn’t working she would be claiming UC which would pay extra for dependent children. To act as though they would all starve because their dad is temporarily incapacitated is batshit.

all whilst you are trying to think of ways to get him off the hook for maintenance including him committing benefits fraud (claiming UC and working cash in hand on the side) and hes trying to get access to a child who he is not related to.

@Hoardasurass OP hasn't said that he's working cash in hand while claiming benefits, and trying to retain a relationship with a child that he has raised as his own, would be seen as a good thing by most people. I suggested he stop fighting the ex on that issue because its just clouding the water, not because its a bad thing to do.

He was in hospital at the start of the year - January to March. OP has provided a time line of the events if you’re still unsure.

The OP did say that his employer wouldn’t let him go part time “officially” and then work the extra on the side. So he definitely was trying to get half his wage cash in hand to avoid paying CMS, and OP seemed to be annoyed his employer wouldn’t let him so 🤷‍♀️

Can he contact cms directly to explain he was sectioned then got a lower paid job? This way they can recalculate the figures.

Was he being paid in the period the backpayments have been deducted for. Im all for men paying but if he had no income during a period I don't see how this is possible?

This is just bullshit from start to finish. Read the updates !! DS was mistaken about the amounts shown on his payslip. He doesn’t owe £9k. He didn’t pay for three months - not a year , three months - because he was in hospital and not earning. When he got his job back he went to the ex to reinstate payments and it was she who told him not to bother because she had applied to CMS. CMS then took six months to make the calculation and write to him to let him know his payments. THAT is why he is in arrears. He has never refused to pay and previously paid £600 a month when the CMS calculation is £450.

And I defy you to find anywhere in any of OP’s posts that she is trying to get him off the hook for maintenance - quite the opposite, she is simply trying to make sure the amount is correct. And where did she say anywhere that DS is committing benefit fraud by working cash in hand and claiming ? She hasn’t actually said anything at all about his entitlement to benefits so you made that up.

I don’t even know where to start with what you said about DS’s access to his children in your last paragraph. It’s ignorant and disgusting.

Jan - March when he was in hospital, OP says he was not earning. He got his job back in March and it’s taken CMS six months - from then til now - to make the calculation and start payments.

Yep. If you want to make up your mind without actually considering the facts.

I hope that going forward he just pays the CMS. No extras like paying off the sofa. She went through CMS and fair enough but then she shouldn't be looking for more.

I don’t think it was so much to avoid paying CMS as to get it reduced because he was under the impression it was far more than it actually was and he was panicking. Wanting to avoid paying what is due doesn’t seem likely when you consider he was paying more voluntarily than the CMS calculation. I think all of this came from the panic following his misinterpretation of what he was actually being asked to pay. I’m not condoning it but I can understand where it came from.

Good on CMS!! Sometimes it does have a back bone. You have been fed a story from your DS. Not for the first time I suspect

Perhaps the ex hasn’t allowed access because she doesn’t feel the children are safe with him

No but the op did say he couldn't do that due to the nature of his job so shes clearly thought about it as an option.
And from the timeliness his access to his children stopped right before he was sectioned which means he couldn't be trusted to or actually have them.
In most cases I agree that it can be in the child's best interest to continue to have a relationship with a parental figure after a separation however when we are talking about an abusive person or as in this case a mentally ill/unstable person the child needs to be protected by not letting that person near them