Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

(Crying antisemitism because people don't want murder to continue and using religion and land rights as a shield for murder is not going to convince anyone. We don't get other groups coming on here acting like this, so it really does seem a lot of Jewish people have this air of outraged entitlement, which is certainly eye-opening.)

what I have a huge issue with is the people who don’t want the atrocities in Gaza to continue, expressing this by stabbing Jews going to Synagogues in Manchester, London, Canada, Australia etc and throwing stones at school buses taking Jewish kids to school, defacing graves and in the case of my 5 yr old grandchild who is the only Jewish kid in their school, a classmate screaming “You Jew you” at them.

I find it quite bizarre you don't realise you just confirmed my previous post?

Do you seriously think the only 'fighters' killed were the ones Israel has been able to positively ID?

By logic the only Nazis killed in WW2 were the ones we know the names of and the rest were 'civilians'.

Well, German soldiers were wearing German uniforms. That would've made them identifiable, wouldn't it?! They did carry ID documents, too, and dog tags giving numbers that could be correlated with names.

I have the impression that Israeli intelligence is very efficient and they can identify Hamas soldiers. If you're now saying they can't, how are we to interpret assertions that their strikes have been 'targeted' to Hamas fighters?

They were pushed out because of Zionism and formation of Israel. Read Prof Avi Shlaim's account of this/watch on YouTube. He is an Iraqi-Israeli Jew and professor of history at Oxford so quite a relevant expert and one never invited onto mainstream media for some reason. See also - prof Ilan Pappe, Prof Neve Gordon.
He also reports evidence that shows direct involvement of Zionist terrorist gangs in false flag attacks on Jewish communities in Iraq and Yemen, to terrify those Jews into fleeing their homes and going to Israel, to bulk up the numbers. Of course they were treated badly by the European/Ashkenazi Jews when they got there.

Where are Muslims from? Where are Christians from? Where are Anglo-Saxons from? Where are Americans from? Would you give up your home and land to an American whose family lived in that spot 4 generations ago? No, didn't think so. But you think Palestinians should give up their homes to.people who's ancestors may have lived there 3,000 years prior (may, because many Jews are converts, see Shlomo Sands).
I mean it's the direct equivalent of saying that American Pagans, facing persecution under Trump, should be entitled to all the land and houses around Stonehenge since that's where their ancestors lived, and they should be able to kill or displace all the non-Pagan Brits living there and form a Pagan-majority state. Funny how it's never the US/UK/EU expected to give up their lands, but it's wildly unreasonable that some brown people somewhere don't want to lose their homes and lands.

International journalists HAVE embedded with the IDF. You can Google this yourself.

It's just that for some reason, their accounts aren't of much interest to MSM and they don't seem to send the big names, who instead prefer to write open letters insisting they should have free access to territory controlled by barbaric terrorists who filmed themselves slaughtering civilians and for some even stranger reason, they have no fear of them and would not require protection from the IDF.

Presume you've seen what happened in the Judea & Samaria last night - a car ramming by an 'innocent, oppressed' Palestinian resulting in the son of the Israeli Ambassador to the US being on life support. He lost his other son on Oct 7th.

Of course the only thing 'happening in the West Bank' is 'settler violence'. Pretty sure international journalists have no problem getting in there but I haven't seen THAT reported in the international media, have you?

Not bothering to respond to the rest of your post because there's really no point.

I really do hope, that 'as a Jew', you never have the need for the protection of Israel.

Anyway off to find Netanyahu's speech to the UN.

That should be interesting.

What about the 850,000 Jews forcibly expelled from their ancient homes in ME countries in the 1950s, which is more than the displaced Arab Muslims living in Palestine and displaced during the war between Arabs and Muslims in the creation of of Israel. Do they have more right to return to their homes than the Muslims now living in them?

Or is it only displaced Muslims you care about, not Jews?

The problem for Jews in the diaspora is that 2000 years of history, including what is happening right now, has taught them that they will always be regarded as other and attacked snd massacred, and they cannot rely on their fellow citizens or government to defend them. Israel was created by Jews so that Jews could defend themselves when people come to kill them.

All the progressive left antiZionism hate movement wankers are doing is proving how much Jews need Zionism.

Shlaim doesn't claim that they "were pushed out because of Zionism and formation of Israel". At most it was part of a wider picture, piggybacking on existing deeply ingrained antisemitism in Iraq. Most Jews had left before the attacks he refers to took place. My friend's family left in the 1920s once their assets began being seized.

You misunderstood. I am not in support of imperialism.

I oppose all forms of imperialism, including the attitudes of those who think they are entitled to bypass all of the UK's border controls and live in the UK without consent.

I’m agreeing with you, maybe you missed that.

Most delegates walked out, rightly.

Top video on BBC right now

Whoa, that was a mass exodus! Disunited nations ...

I've only read summaries of his speech. It seems to have been something of a war cry, more geared to rally electoral support at home than to enlighten UN members.

He was right to bite back at Erdogan's vicious (and deluded) remarks, though. Apparently Turkey hopes to win leadership of the Muslim world, in opposition to Saudi Arabia. Another dangerously over-ambitious nutcase.

'Also explains the existence of "Jews for Jesus" = basically Jews who converted to Chistianity but didn't want to give up their ethnic identity. '

I agree with all this : re this point though, I read up on them a while ago and it seems a large number, despite the name, are not ethnically Jewish. There's a strong current of interest in things like Hebrew and OT culture in US evangelicalism so that feeds into it.

https://forward.com/culture/154180/the-very-first-jew-for-jesus/

As I've said, I definitely support Israel's right to exist, and I don't think it's an illegitimate colonial state : Jews clearly do have a deep connection & claim, and beyond that, a need for safety.

But I don't think it's straightforward to say it 's the opposite of colonialism. Herzl, Chaim Weizmann, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, Max Nordau and other major Zionists all used the word 'colonial' in relation to Zionism, and several early Zionist societies had 'colonial' in their names.

As I said in pp, Theodore Herzl & others were trying to make it understandable to Europeans, so using words like that helped. Plus colonialism then was generally seen as good, and Herzl for one hoped for beneficial coexistence with Arabs, as did others like Ahad Ha'am. But these words were used, for whatever reason.

As Bibi said 'if there any more moral cowards in the hall, please leave now'.

They'd already left though, to rush to find a TV to watch his speech on, after their juvenile, performative walk out.

They didn't walk out on Iran, Qatar, Syria (former Al Qaeda), or Turkey who all finance and organise the terrorists Israel is having to fight against.

Particularly enjoyed him bringing a Starlink hub for the Iranian delegation if they wish to defect and him calling out the weak governments in the West.

Also Hamdani 😂

An amazing speech from an amazing leader, especially defending the brave soldiers of the IDF who have been disgustingly smeared.

'We will win, we have no other choice'.

Am Israel Chai!

What about the thousands of Arab Jews who were forced out or murdered for being Jewish before the state of Israel was established? One of my grandparents was forced out of Iraq in the early 1920s. One was forced out a generation earlier than that. Interested to see how you manage to blame Jews for that too.

And I can assure you there was no need for false flag operations to scare Jews out of Baghdad. Being able to see their uncles and cousins dead bodies hanging outside their school windows was enough to scare them.

You should watch it, you might learn a thing or two.

Ed Miliband cosying up to the Iranian Foreign Minister is sickening although not at all surprising, surprisingly.

This country is fucked, totally.

It’s a pretty complex matter but you both have made it pretty simple. Discussions like this lead to nothing as both sides are dismissive. Both sides will give analogies and both will shut down any from the other side. Given the emotional responses, it’s pretty clear one side is Jewish and other Palestinian or two “experts” wanting to assert their superior knowledge. Reality is normal public on both sides is suffering. Sadly some issues have no solution. This is one of them.

I have superficial knowledge of this issue but looking at the way people talk here, cannot imagine those who are actually living in the region reaching any solution.

This country has been fucked for quite some time. Politicians have ruined it for their own love of power and greed.

I'm really sorry about your family. 💐 I read Samantha Ellis' Chopping Onions On My Heart recently, her parents were Iraqi Jews who fled in the 70s. She examined Shlaim's claims, the basis seemed very weak. Even if it were true, the persecution, as you've said, was all too real.

It’s really just evidence of the catastrophic damage he has caused to Israel’s global standing. Israel is isolated and now dependent on the US more than ever. I wouldn’t say that outlook is positive.

I watched an interview with the German-Jewish publicist Henryk M. Broder the other day.
He mentioned a phrase used by the Nazis, which showed very well how they regarded well-integrated Jews, who went as far as converting to Christianity: ‘Whether Jew or Christian it's all one, the filth lies in the race.’
Says it all, really.

Just to spoil the intensely serious nature of the thread ... I can't read the title without thinking "From their mummies' tummies!"