Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

Garlic, I can only reply to this from the Jewish perspective, but often people don't intend to say or believe they're saying something antisemitic, but will use a particular accusation in a particular way that has a long history of being used against Jews to stir up hate.

Unless you're aware of its history, evolution and patterns of usage, an antisemitic trope can be harder to identify.

This!

Wayne Rooney is Jewish.
In his case, he comes from Liverpool.
One Jewish grandparent.

Let's wait for the pro-Palestinian protests around him...

I appreciate your taking the trouble. Thank you. I'm fairly sure I know of the antisemitic tropes and that I don't use them. I have, though, been called antisemitic, smelly and islamofascist (!) on this thread for having critical opinions about Israel's politics.

I have critical opinions about a lot of political matters. I'm only called anti/phobic when my view is less than wholeheartedly in favour of Israel (note: not Jews), Islam (not Muslims) or transgenderism (not trans people).

Yes, and I think the Jewish people's experience of the Holocaust has made them more hard line, which is understandable but also a barrier to any solution.

Well that's not going to happen because the Islamics want a Muslim Caliphate to cover the Levant and the entire of the Middle East.
However, not even that will satisfy them, because at first they will have free rein to persecute the Kurds, Ahmadis and the Alowites and having done that the Sunnis and Shias will set about trying to destroy each other.
And people say the Israelis are belligerent !

A synagogue in Canada was sprayed with bullets on Yom Kippur.
Regardless of where us Jews are from, it's looks like we aren't welcome where we are now!

They have lesss fear of any repercussions from those countries.

When I'm World Empress, I will ban religious governments, religious militias and candidates standing on religious beliefs.

I might make a small exception for the Vatican and similar outposts. Not sure about that - but I've got time to work on it, as I'm not Empress yet 😄

That's right! Palestinians, for whom terrorism against Jews has been a way of life since the beginning of their very existence as a nationalistic cause, are deserving of self determination but Jews are not. According to these people..

Strangely enough the Arabs didn't have a nationalistic cause while the territory was illegally occupied by Jordan and Egypt.

Mecca and Medina ( and Jerusalem) are places of pilgrimage for Muslims. Their identity is not tied to place in the same way.

Yes, my understanding is that Christians are getting out of the ME as Islam becomes more hardline and the rise in antisemitism is largely a result of the increasing power and influence of Islam.

I used to go on pro-Palestine marches, but now I think the Jews do need a homeland to go to if necessary.

I also think both Jews and Palestinians have a legitimate claim on the land and I can't see any end to the conflict.

Jewish people paid a huge amount of money for the land, bought from the Arab landlords so there was no illegal taking of land and Israel has offered a two state solution multiple times since 1948, it was not accepted because the aim of the other side is eradication of the Jews, not co-existence.

I’m not. It most definitely does exist.

And ne’er the twain will meet!

I find this thread really depressing as you can see both ‘sides’ entrenched in their hatred with no interest in even beginning to understand the alternative perspective.

The discussion of Israel’s right to exist or exist as a Jewish state shouldn’t really be up for discussion. Does anyone question America’s or Australia’s right to exist? I don’t hear it much. So, I do think that is antisemitism, even if its ’accidental’.

Equally, though, the idea that the Palestinians brought it all on themselves and should just suck it up is wrong too. I hear so much that Hamas were elected and that the Palestinians support them as an excuse for killing civilians and ethnic cleansing. Firstly, they were elected 20 years ago and the average age in Gaza is 19. Secondly, they were voted in because they were good at running civil society (supported by Iranian money) and not because they wanted to destroy Israel and us Jews. The poor Palestinian civilians have been traduced by Hamas time and time again, and radicalised enough to support them.

Many Israeli senior leaders have admitted the Palestinians have a legitimate grievance including Rabin, Olmert,Peres and Sharon. And I think that they know more than most on this thread.

Both the Jewish population and the Palestinian population need to work towards a two state solution and avoid maximalist demands, which are not realistic. They need to start serving their populations rather than perpetuating a war which is not pleasant for either side.

That’s really interesting. I read the Arabisation/Islamisation of the Middle East/North Africa due to the expansion of the Arabs brought/imposed the new language and new religion. Some of the invading armies must have brought actual Arabs into the populations, but that it is more a spread of the Arab language (and their religion) rather than a replacement by Arab peoples.

I’m probably being as clear as mud. What we all call Arab peoples and countries today, are not in fact really Arab peoples. It is more an Arab language group; countries where Arabic is used. They are a mixture of the original peoples of the areas the Muslim/ Arab armies invaded, and the invading Arabs themselves. You still even have pockets of the original peoples, who use their own language, and some may even still follow their original religions. Like the Berbers/ Amazigh who speak their own language, Egyptian Coptics (who use old Egyptian in their religious services), Lebanese Christians/ Maronites (who use Syriac in their religious services, related to Aramaic) etc. I think the original Lebanese were descended from the Phoenicians. These are possibly more easy to identify where some kept their old religions, and use the native languages before ‘Arabisation’. Of course, most probably speak Arabic in daily life as it will have taken over. And, I think those of the older religions (and not Muslim) do have an higher immigration rate as ironically there can be state discrimination, and indeed maybe sectarian violence, against them (as they are not Muslims) in their own native lands.

Mind you, having written all that, we’re all mixtures of this and that, and maybe even a bit of the other! Bits of this and that from various peoples. They might have just been passing through, or came and hung around. Usually from locations not too far from the region.

Oct 7th is absolutely unforgivable and is certainly a barrier to any solution IMO.

Same as Palestinians promptly voting in Hamas/Fatah in 2006 after being given autonomy in Gaza.

I think the Jews got the message from the Holocaust, not just from the exterminations and intent, but also from Western countries standing by and refusing to allow immigration which led to more slaughter.

I also think Jews in the British Mandate got the message loud and clear from the Arabs (and the British) before 1948, in Israel for the proceeding 75 years and of course Oct 7th put it on loudspeaker for current generations of Jews around the world!

We have ignored that message though and now, in 2026, Governments in the West are not just bystanders but openly and actively colluding in it to appease the vocal antisemites in their populations.

Why else recognise a State in response to a war started by a proscribed terrorist organisation who had just committed an actual genocide in Israel. A State with no leader, which constantly rejected itself as a State in favour of trying to destroy the world's only Jewish State next door.

Starmer's announcement was the only time I've ever genuinely felt ashamed to be British.

"Believing that Israel is behaving in an outrageous and racist way, though, had no correlation with Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state or for Jews to have a safe sanctuary in an increasingly antisemitic world."

I agree completely with this and if it worked both ways on threads started on here that would be fine. I am constantly called names because I think Israel is doing overkill in a very public way, egged on by Trump for a land grab and profit. We then get threads on here outraged that people are outraged and telling us the sky is green and no one murdered anyone other than Hamas. As has been said before, being disingenous about what is happening won't help anyone in the long run. Crying antisemitism because people don't want murder to continue and using religion and land rights as a shield for murder is not going to convince anyone. We don't get other groups coming on here acting like this, so it really does seem a lot of Jewish people have this air of outraged entitlement, which is certainly eye-opening. I am very glad a few level headed people have come on here to express they are Jewish and don't agree with some of the more outlandish statements. We don't seem to see much of that.

Of course, fewer people will be visiting an active war zone, which Israel seems to be keen to become by starting wars in the area. However if threads are continuously asking for opinions from people they will always consider "ill informed" if they have a different viewpoint. You cannot blame people for "getting involved" if you ask the question, presumably you asked it because you want to listen to the answer. What you do with that is your choice but these threads always end up shouty, nasty and bitter for seemingly no reason other than certain people cannot accept people have a different opinion.

I hear so much that Hamas were elected and that the Palestinians support them as an excuse for killing civilians and ethnic cleansing. Firstly, they were elected 20 years ago and the average age in Gaza is 19. Secondly, they were voted in because they were good at running civil society (supported by Iranian money) and not because they wanted to destroy Israel and us Jews. The poor Palestinian civilians have been traduced by Hamas time and time again, and radicalised enough to support them.

No one has excused killing civilians and imaginary ethnic cleansing.

Civilians get killed in wars, you know that right?

What's the civilian : combatant death ratio in this war and how does that compare to others?

Hamas, who were 'good at running civil society' started the war and civil defence was their responsibility, especially as they wanted a war in Gaza and orchestrated it, right?

Hamas was created in 1988 (from Palestinians) with a Charter to annihilate Israel and kill the Jews so I really think the Palestinians who voted for them were well aware what they were voting for, along with their 20 year (at that time) history of suicide bombings and hundreds of other terrorist atrocities which are generally glorified in school textbooks and Palestinian culture. The other half voted for Fatah, also responsible for terrorism against Jews and glorified in the same way.

Those Palestinians should have had a lot more thought about the future that they wanted for their children, the now under 19s, right?

Really gets my goat when people like you excuse Palestinians of having any agency or responsibility for their past and current predicament.

That was to @Newbutoldfather

Exactly. And the reason that they might face "restrictions" on bringing their Palestinian spouses to Israel is because they arent israeli citizens and so would need to follow the correct visa/residency procedures. The same restrictions would apply to any foreign national wanting to move there. Every country has immigration laws but its apartheid when Israel do it for some reason? 🤔

What's the civilian : combatant death ratio in this war and how does that compare to others?

I found this an intriguing question, @BlessedIsTheFruit, so I looked it up.

Israeli: 1:1 including October 7th.

Gazan: 1.5:1 according to official government statement.
Gazan: 5:1 according to leaked Israeli Military Intelligence Data.

Other observer bodies put the Gazan ratio at more like 8:1, but there are serious difficulties to taking body counts and distinguishing young fighters from civilians.

Some comparators.

US War in Afghanistan: Less than 1:1
US War in Iraq: 2:1
Battle of Mosul: 2:1
Korean War: 4:1

The UN average of 9:1 globally includes outcomes of displacement, famine and disease over time; the above figures relate to direct victims of specific conflicts.

Gazan: 5:1 according to leaked Israeli Military Intelligence Data.

Are you referring to the IDF positively IDing 8,000 terrorists at that stage?

Please tell how that compares to other wars where one side has positively IDed thousands of enemy combatants during a war?

Honestly, try harder and recheck your sources.

@BlessedIsTheFruit ,

‘No one has excused killing civilians and imaginary ethnic cleansing.’

Well, your next line does kind of excuse it. And, as for imaginary, why are the Gazans living in 40% of Gaza? What do you think is happening in the West Bank. If this is all imaginary, why aren’t Israel keen to invite the press in to prove it once and for all?

‘Israel’s far-right national security minister has set out a plan for the illegal forced expulsion of all Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, with the intention of sending them abroad.

Speaking in the run-up to close-fought Israeli elections, Itamar Ben-Gvir said the plan aimed to remove 250,000 Palestinians from Gaza in the first year, followed by the rest of its population of roughly 2 million over the next six years.’

What do you think the above is? Remember Ben G’vir is a minister of state for Israel, not some far right blogger!

‘Civilians get killed in wars, you know that right?

What's the civilian : combatant death ratio in this war and how does that compare to others?’

I am well aware of that. But it’s not normal to drop 2,000 pound bombs on to densely built up areas or to know hundreds will be killed to eliminate one of your enemy.

That ratio is basically unknown and hotly contested. Of course, allowing journalists to embed, as has taken place in all other recent wars, might have cleared things up.

‘Hamas, who were 'good at running civil society' started the war and civil defence was their responsibility, especially as they wanted a war in Gaza and orchestrated it, right?’

Yes, and that is on Hamas, who are mostly dead now (and rightly

‘Those Palestinians should have had a lot more thought about the future that they wanted for their children, the now under 19s, right?

Really gets my goat when people like you excuse Palestinians of having any agency or responsibility for their past and current predicament.’

That’s just so glib it might as well have come straight from TikTok. Do you hold the Russian civilians responsible for Putin? Do you hold the Israeli population responsible for Smotrich and Ben G’vir? Do you even blame the U.S public for Trump? Most voters vote on the basis of personal priorities and Hamas promised better public services.

With no vote since 2006, it is estimated 7-9% of living Gazans voted for Hamas! Are all the Gazans to be blamed for that and made to pay for generations?!

Bizarre reply. Surprisingly, I don't have access to leaked military databases. More like 9,000 fighters, actually.
Information (May 2025) from https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war