Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

The Arabs were offered a two-state solution at least 5 times as I recall.
The turned it down every time, the last time being in 2008.
This is because they don't want a two-state solution. They want a one-state solution and that state isn't Israel.

It's been tried 5 times and each time the Arabs rejected it. See my post at 8.20.
That's why I SMH.

👏 from the river to the sea Palestine will be free. That lovely slogan, laced with intentions for Israel and her people. The dopes lap it up though on their hate marches.

An intervention of this kind might be the only way to achieve a two state solution in a way that can guarantee the security of both sides, but would rely entirely on US will which is vanishingly unlikely. Israel appears to have strong armed forces, but they would be very weak compared to a US backed intervention combined with economic levers.

Tribalism linked to religion and race has existed since humans existed. Even monkey colonies have rivalry between them.

The difference is that we are supposed to be the more ‘intelligent’ of the apes, yet we are still throwing stones and spears at each other like we did in prehistoric times. Nothing has changed except that the stones and spears are a little more deadly now.

No it's not. Ethiopian Jews have had a difficult time being accepted by some people in Israel due to racism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32813056

I was going to raise this but I thought it pointless.

That does not stop it being an ethnoreligion. Denying the ethnicity element is just a way of denying people's heritage and identity.

In prehistoric times everyone had stones and spears. Nowadays, things are decidedly more ‘asymmetric’.

I’m sure that ‘my stone is better than your stone’ was a thing too back then.

The problems with the settements in the WB are far deeper than who the land belong to. Creating enclaves of Israeli civil law in the middle of terriroty with millions of Palestinians living effectively under an Israeli military dictatorship (even those in PA areas are affected by Israeli military law) is problematic. Creating settlements in order to stymie a future Palestinian state is problematic. But then add to that a violent extremist messianic minority. And then add to that a far-right Israeli government who are not even enforcing Israeli civil law against the extreme settlers. I think that's been the push for the UK government.

Now it's my voice is louder than yours, as proven by Charlotte Church.

The answer to the question is that it varies.

I am ethnically an Ashkenazi Jew and that is officially an ethnicity and we do have enough genetically in common to suffer from higher percentages of certain genetic disorders. I believe the same is true of Sephardic Jews.

There has been a lot of ‘marrying out’ in the last couple of generations, though, which means that the genetic ‘purity’ is becoming rapidly diluted.

However, I am not sure that this gives me some automatic right to live where my genes originated 2,000+ years ago. After all, do we all get a right to live in Africa because that is where mankind is thought to have originated?!

I do believe that the Jewish homeland in Israel was a reasonable solution after the Holocaust, but it was a compromise, and totally unfair to the native Palestinian population. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t stay, and remain Jewish. I think it should. However, it does mean that, for long term peace, a two state solution needs to be found which addresses everyone’s needs and aspirations.

I do see something in Israel in common with apartheid S.A, but it is a very imperfect model, as Arab’s within the 1967 borders have (almost) the same rights as Jews. Unfortunately, Netanyahu and his religious allies are doing their best to change this, and there is definitely discrimination on the ground. The occupied territories do, however have a lot in common with the black ‘homelands’ in S.A.

There is no easy solution and the international community has to engage fully to get the two sides to negotiate in good faith.

Well if all the Jews in the world did that they wouldn’t fit for a start!

This.

By ‘international community’ I’d read the US. They are the only ones with the clout to secure a resolution. Unfortunately, that is unlikely until the US administration changes.

I see you are not even bothering to pretend you blame the Israeli government or army.

Accusing Jews in general of murdering babies is somewhat antisemitic. I’m quite glad you’ve not tried to hide it by pretending it’s only the zionists that are a problem and shown your true colours.

For the earlier poster who said they’d never witnessed antisemitism, the above is a great example.

@BermudaRhombus ,

‘By ‘international community’ I’d read the US. They are the only ones with the clout to secure a resolution. Unfortunately, that is unlikely until the US administration changes.’

Without the U.S, it isn’t going to happen. And I think that, unless the Israeli government changes and they stop settling additional land, sanctions are appropriate.

A proper solution would also be better for Israel. I am not sure how many enjoy continual army service and the threat of war. I definitely wouldn’t.

I am just wondering about the centuries for NI resolution. Northern Ireland was only created in 1921, when Ireland was partitioned.

Imagine that being a post about the vaginas of Muslim women.

If you were brought up Jewish, then you would know that the ties to Israel are not because that's where our genes origanted from 2000 years ago.
Did you fast on tisha b'av to remember the destruction of the temple? Did you break a glass at your wedding to remember the destruction of Jerusalem at your happiest monent? Did you turn towards Jerusalem when you said the Amida? Did you sing "Next year in Jerusalem" at your seder?

It's only people with a passing knowledge of Judaism who would claim that the Jewish connection to their homeland is just about genes.

I am actually really appreciating the less extreme views of posters who are Jewish on here, it enables discussion and thoughtful dialogue.
For me adaption and change is inevitable as the human race. If you focus on the past you don't move forward. I think it would be interesting to know what the more right wing Jews feel about Russia and Ukraine, for example.

I was disgusted with Trump's casino strip plans for the WB and am amazed Israel wasn't angered by that, which showed exactly what this war is all about, a land grab for profit. The fake facts and religion is a cover for greed by both America and Israel. Trying to white wash murder with "but my religion" is ridiculous.

How dare persecuted Jews feel so extreme about it.

Miriam Margoyles has entered the chat.