Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

Who really comes from anywhere definable? More importantly, who cares when innocent blood is being spilled on both sides.

Both sides have right and horrific wrong on their side.

I am far more interested in why there are no genuine efforts to seek a permanent peace settlement and a two-state solution.

Why is the UN doing nothing about this?

In no particular order:

There are maps in existence which show previous efforts to achieve a peace solution.

There are previous models for moving forward, such as truth and reconciliation in South Africa, power sharing in Northern Ireland or even the de-militarised zone on the Korean peninsula. I’m not saying that those models are perfect but they are a starting point.

There are the possibilities of technology, for example what about connecting Gaza and a West Bank zone with a high-speed elevated rail line?

To be quite frank, there are other pressing problems in the world and it is high time that this pitiful tribal rivalry is resolved.

Ultimately, the evidence suggests that we all come from Africa and emigrated from there.

Nope, we're real!
I'm proud to be a Zionist.
Boker tov everyone!

Told you this has would descend into Israel-Bashing!
(Off to watch Eastenders, so sheket b'vakasha)

Because the Palestinians (or probably more accurately Hamas, as their sort of elected representatives) and the various organisations propping them up (ISIS, The Taliban, etc) have no interest in a two state solution. The charter for Hamas is the death of all Jews worldwide and it is pretty tricky to negotiate with that as a starting point.

The argument for a Jewish homeland was never based solely on the fact that Jewish ancestors once lived there. It was also rooted in the reality that Jews have been one of the most persistently persecuted minorities in history.

Some people seem unaware that in addition to the holocaust where six million Jews were murdered, Jews were expelled from England, repeatedly expelled from France, driven out of Spain and Portugal, massacred during the Crusades, confined to ghettos across Europe, and subjected to repeated pogroms in the Russian Empire.

In the 20th century, most Jewish communities in Arab and other Middle Eastern countries also fled or were expelled amid persecution and rising hostility.

And even today, the lived reality of Jews is heightened security measures, such as having to wear a stab vest, even in supposedly safe and tolerant countries like the UK.

Given that history, the desire for a homeland where Jews would be a majority and not dependent on the goodwill or tolerance of others is entirely understandable and rational.

Absolutely!!
How can I live next to a neighbour who plants a bomb in my car, who tries to shoot me when I take out the bins?

Mumsnet are still allowing this thread, despite it veering off-course.

Because it's both. Yes, people can convert to Judaism but historically numbers have been small. Similarly, you can be an atheist and still ethnically Jewish. Also explains the existence of "Jews for Jesus" = basically Jews who converted to Chistianity but didn't want to give up their ethnic identity. Ethnic Jews are geneally genetically related to each other even after millenia of displacement.

Let's not forget that back in the heady days of the 90s when it felt like a two state solution was achievable, Hamas was blowing up buses and murdering innocent Israeli civilians in order to (successfully) derail it.

The fact that Israel is an expansionist state - has to be to accommodate that automatic right. As @Bloodysquirellls said, depending on which side of the moral debate you stand, settling could be considered stealing.

I just saw online that 14-16% of American Jewish people are converts and around 3000 people per year start introductory courses in Judaism.

What a stupid comment. Israel is an exansionist state??? It gave back Sinai for peace wirh Egypt, it left Gaza. Where there are disputed settlments are in the West Bank but that's been an issue for decades and it has nothing to do with accommodating immigrants. And in any case, the vast majority of Israeli setllements are in blocs near the green line which were always going to be included as part of Israel in any 2 state solution with land swaps to compensate Palestine such as Modiin Illit, Beitar Illit, Maale Adumim, Gush Etziyon etc.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/t/terrorism-in-the-uk/current-threat-level-UK/

Take a look at this.
Is anyone starting a thread asking where Sikkh's, Muslims or Baptists come from?
Why not?

Because these are religions and not ethnicities - and no one obsesses in trying to prove that they don't come from where they say there do. I think the OP was making the point that Jews originated from what is now Israel (more or less) and all these antisemities run around desperately trying to prove that they don't.

There are lots of people who are part Ashkenazi actually - I'm a quarter and I know lots of others who are also mixed. Most of us are not brought up Jewish culturally or religiously. I work for an Israeli company and most of they don't know I'm actually a quarter Jewish. My Jewish ancestors were discriminated against in Russia and then the UK. My grandparent was made to feel ashamed about being Jewish and married a non Jew and never mentioned their heritage. I find that sad. I'm not at all Zionist though and find the Israel question problematic.

Good point, but look at what some posters have stated.
This thread has gone off-course.

Oh don't you worry - we aren't all hypocrites. The people who bend over backwards to call everyone a racist everytime the subject of illegal immigration comes up, are right here being antisemitic. Oh no they don't think they are being racist, good gracious, how dare we even suggest that. Just one little thing called anti zionism, they think sets their principles up to heavenly proportions. We've even had the comment that zionist bots are on here. Reminds me of all those getting off on seeing Ed Sheeran crying over the way bullies are treating him. The mob that say shame on you for not seeing a place where they didn't even know existed in the same way they do. Ungrateful wankers like the rapper with his on stage drama. Then these people have the fucking nerve to call everyone else fascists when it's them who want to control minds. Standing outside universities questioning where staff and students are from so they can put 'zionists'on a list. Sounds very familiar to me, very 1930s. Sickening behaviour.

It usually does on predominantly leftist mumsnet. I was on a thread last week, and some of the posts I read were so blatantly antisemitic. Some of them got removed. It’s pretty obvious what is motivating some posters’ hatred towards Israel and it goes beyond Gaza.

Thanks that is a very comprehensive explanation of land.

However, nearly all the land was state land and not privately held land and that passed to the state of Israel in 1948 when the brits left.

So do you think we (ie. UK gov) would know where that boundary was and that if they are sanctioning an illegal settlement (the one mentioned in the OP)- it probably is because it’s been illegally taken/ stolen (which ever word you please)?

Because that’s my assumption. The UK gov have a pretty high bar for Israel sanctions.

The same Germany that is dragging their feet over paying Africans (Namibia and Tanzania) any reparations.

Of course. Amazed this thread is still standing. It's very telling that they are the ones that eventually get deleted. Cracks me up when the lefties bang on about the place being overrun by bots and the far right when they never look inwards how their posts come across.

Ok well I can’t even afford to rent there! Sad times 🫠

But do you understand what I am trying to say?

That just because you are from somewhere - either in your lifetime or in your ancestral heritage. It doesn’t give you an automatic right to live there.

I don’t think what I am saying is hugely controversial and is quite reasonable.

So the concept of ‘Greater Israel’ doesn’t exist then ? In 2024 Netanyahu talked about his plans for after the Israel/Hamas war in Gaza and presented a map that fully annexed the West Bank. In 2025 he said in a TV interview that he was very much connected to a ‘complete Israel’ - a remark that sparked requests for clarification from Jordan and Egypt.

That has long been my understanding, although I wouldn't have been able to put it so clearly and succinctly as @heresiarch.

Am Israel Chai!