Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

They originally came from the middle East, travelled and settled in various places.

Jews have said they do not consider themselves a race/ethnicity but "a people".

I find it really weird, assuming you read my posts, that you would take that view.

I don't feel it is I who created the rage-bait quite honestly. It is a common debate, I just started it.

I find it extremely sad, but not unsurprising, that your reaction is that I am not posting in good faith considering I've made it patently clear who I stand with.

You're right that this discussion wouldn't exist about any other country or religion and that was rather the point of my OP!

If you want it taken down, please report as I'm sure you have already, as have others who seem to not want to have this conversation (didn't need to click on it) despite discourse about it all over other SM platforms.

MN will check my posting history and can confirm my stance.

All my great grandparents lived in villages in Russian Poland and Ukraine until they were hounded out by progroms. They escaped to the UK. Some siblings went to Argentina and now live in Uruguay. Some Siblings who didn’t leave were sent to concentration camps and murdered. I have many Israeli cousins now. Some married Jews whose families had lived in what was then called Palestine or Gaza for generations. 4 relatives were murdered on October 7th 2023. until that date I really thought we were safe.

those of you who don’t think Israel should exist, where would you like us to go?

Who is crying wolf?

Explain?

What I posted was factual based on reporting which the other poster left out for some reason. She was inferring that the Palestinian family was being evicted from property they own just because 'evil Israelis'.

If you're referring to the 'victim' reference, I stand by it. You're not a victim if you have exhausted the courts for a decade fighting for something you don't own, and lose, and should not be portrayed as such.

I have no wish ... but...
Hmm.
"Some of my best friends..."

Your double-talk is worthy of Sir Humphrey Appleby.
Familiar with Yes Minister?

What was vile and what was typical?

OK OP, maybe you genuinely wanted an open discussion.
Unfortunately, us Jews are constantly looking over our shoulders for those wanting to harm us.
We are defensive because we are attacked.
Have u tried visiting a Jewish primary school?
The security guards know me and I still need to prove my identity every drop-off & pick-up, simply to enter the carpark area.

So 20,000 murdered children at the hands of the Israeli government aren’t victims? Explain?

You might be surprised to know that Israel is 20% non-Jewish. Many Muslims and Christians with full rights as citizens of the country.

Perhaps I'm being cynical but I just don't believe a lot of the people furiously arguing about the Israel/Palestine thing gave it a second thought prior to recent events. I think in many cases it's the latest thing for white middle class lefties to scold people about. Like 'islamophobia'. Typically in these discussions there's a boogeyman which is usually implied to be an 'uneducated' working class person - 'flaggers', white van men, sexist builders, etc.

I don't believe the average white British person has an issue with Jewish people and certainly not to the degree they have with 'boat people' etc. And I don't believe most of the people championing the cause would dare challenge a Muslim on their views about Jewish people so it's often a bit circular.

I haven't mentioned my best friends..........

Don't know who he is.

It seems quite a few want this thread taken down and to portray it as a 'dog whistle'.

I think it says a lot that making a thread supporting the Jewish people (who are currently under unprecedented attack) has people purporting to be Jewish actually wanting it removed as they deem it 'rage bait' and others assume it is an attack on Jews, deliberately misinterpreting it.

Weird times.

I'll just keep on calling out and trying to educate antisemites on the cesspit that is X then.

The Jewish people on there are glad to know they have non-Jews standing up for them.

MN is obviously not the place to stand up for the Jewish people.

Just coming back to where this thread started.

Ultimately we are all just humans. Originally we came from Africa.

Yes we have different cultures, and religions bound up in that, and nations that sometimes vaguely approximate where different cultures start and end. But there are no natural countries, just what humans have put in place.

Nothing is ever going to get sorted until all parties, on all sides of various wars and conflicts, sit down with that starting point in their hearts and minds. Unfortunately it seems to need everyone to realise that at the same time, otherwise the worst so-called “leaders” in the world are going to carry on running rampage as seems to be happening right now.

What has the war in Gaza Palestinians started, using children as human sacrifices while the international community refused to put pressure on Egypt to allow families safe refuge, got to do with Palestinians being evicted from properties they don't own after a decades long court battle in Judea and Samaria, pray tell?

Agree, I think the vast majority don't care at all or only care in a very narrow way (as you mention). I just wish they realised the implicit support they have given the true antisemites.

I work in a stereotypically blokey/small c-conservative industry and its been a godsend over the last few years. There hasn't much talk about it (except one person that gets their news from tiktok and definitely sees it as the current thing and not real people's lives).

That's not my point.

The party line on the Palestinian side is that Jews in Israel and Judea & Samaria (assume they don't mean the Arabs!) are 'European colonisers' who need to 'go back home'.

Where is 'home'?

From my understanding Jewish communities in Europe were denied citizenship, legal rights and indigenous status of the countries they lived in. They were considered 'resident aliens', forbidden from owning land, joining trade guilds or serving in the Government.

In the Russian Empire, Jews were legally restricted from living in most of the country and forced to live in a specific region called the 'Pale of the Settlement' and frequently subject to state sanctioned violence.

In Muslim countries, they were 'dhimmi', legally 2nd class citizens who had to pay Jizya tax with restrictions on residence, employment and clothing.

So if they weren't accepted as indigenous citizens (even if born there) all around the world, where do these people arguing Jews are not indigenous to Israel/Judea & Samaria think they originated from.

This is what happens when you turn an entire area of MN into no go zones because you block everyone who voices an opinion you don't like. AIBU now, really? Just read a paper or watch the news and you'll see what the world thinks. Those who are allowed free speech anyway.

Why? Dual citizenship is allowed in both Ireland and UK.

I am not ok with what is happening. Yet your point is lost on me. I’m a white Christian, where do I “come” from? You are suggesting you must “come” from an area or country to live there - which is hysterical.

They clearly don't believe we are all human and originally came from Africa.
That is not "their point" so no one will get anywhere with the truth.
Rage bait and fake facts.

Ah, the clarion call of conspiracy nuts.

You are confusing many different things.

Far too deep for 2 am, every time I saw your thread title I just wanted to say the same place as the rest of us!!

The stalk!

The Old Testament will supply the answer to the question.

The Christian Bible stops short of the destruction of the second Temple by the Romans in 70CE, iirc. It details the lives of Jewish people in a certain geographical area, the fact that they had neighbours whom they didnt like, and were oppressed by an occupying force.

After the destruction of the Temple, there occurred a diaspora, with Jews moving to parts of the middle east, north Africa, and southeastern Europe, eventually moving all over Europe, though often being booted out and moving again.

No idea why you are conflating things like connection and migration.

They either own the land or they don’t.

If they do - then they don’t need to ‘settle it’

If they don’t - then what are they doing by ‘settling it’? Borrowing it? claiming it? What?