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Where do you think Jewish people come from?

738 replies

BlessedIsTheFruit · 23/09/2026 20:07

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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mathanxiety · Yesterday 02:15

SoManyTshirts · 23/09/2026 20:22

Totally agree with Bloodysquirellls. I would hope that Jews born and resident in Europe consider themselves Europeans, not Israeli.

Why would you hope that, or believe that, or consider that possible, given the events that happened in Europe within living memory?

Bloodysquirellls · Yesterday 02:17

Redpaisley · 23/09/2026 23:08

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. You know where your family came from so despite living in fancy area, you don’t think you are a native.

Do you know where Jew came from? If you do, please post it here.

I am native to there. Doesn’t mean I am entitled to live there… bluntly because I can’t afford it. I don’t own the land. It’s not difficult to understand.

mathanxiety · Yesterday 02:24

I'd like to chip in with a few facts that seem to have escaped many British people commenting here:

The existence of 'Northern Ireland' and its relationship to the island of Great Britain, and the government at Westminster. Ask yourselves how six counties in the northeast of the island of Ireland came to be a British province.

The name of the disputed patch of land in the Levant, and the government exercising control over it until 1948.

The Balfour Declaration, a glib promise made in the heat of war for reasons to do with that war, and subsequent conflicting promises made by British governments to many other parties with a stake in the land, with political expediency as the motive, not foresight, or fairness, or any thought other than to kick the can down the road.

canklesmctacotits · Yesterday 02:57

OakleyAnnie · 23/09/2026 23:46

Interesting that you’ve mentioned Saudi Arabia but not any of the other 50 something Muslim countries. The point about Jews is there is literally one country that is Jewish. And many people in this world (and thread) don’t think the Jews deserve to have autonomy and self rule like every other nation.

Mecca and Medina 🤦‍♀️

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:24

Bloodysquirellls · Yesterday 02:14

No idea why you are conflating things like connection and migration.

They either own the land or they don’t.

If they do - then they don’t need to ‘settle it’

If they don’t - then what are they doing by ‘settling it’? Borrowing it? claiming it? What?

Most land in a country isn't publicly owned, it's state land. And state land can be used for residential development and sold for private use. Happens everywhere, all the time.

Prior to 1948, all land owned by Jews had been privately purchased. Arabs obviously owned land although a lot of the land was held by large absenteee landlords and the rural villagers would lease the land from them (which is why some land sales prior to 1948 would then lead to dsplacement from villages). After 1948, there was an "absentee landlord law" which allowed the land held by arabs not present in Israel (either through displacement or because they had never lived there) to be held by the state - problematic for sure but similar laws passed elsewhere with large scale displacements - certainly, happend to the 800,000 Jews displaced from Arab countries who lost all their property.
However, nearly all the land was state land and not privately held land and that passed to the state of Israel in 1948 when the brits left.

It's more problematic in the West Bank because there Israel hasn't annexed it and applied Israeli civil law. So legally they really shouldn't be converting state land to private land for Israeli citizens. Until now, privately held land was protected but a lot of the recent uproar in the WB is because extremsit groups are trying to take over privately held land, whch is illegal under Israeli law too.

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:26

Bloodysquirellls · Yesterday 02:17

I am native to there. Doesn’t mean I am entitled to live there… bluntly because I can’t afford it. I don’t own the land. It’s not difficult to understand.

You're conflating sovereignly and land ownership. Different concepts. Many Israelis rent their homes and dont' own land because they can't afford it.

smooththecat · Yesterday 03:26

What I thought broadly aligns with what’s on Wikipedia so I’ll link. Hope that helps but not sure thread is in good faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

Jews - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:28

BlessedIsTheFruit · 23/09/2026 20:07

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

Jews obviously originate from ME and anyone denying that is anti Semitic

But there's also a long tradition of Jews being portrayed as ethically fully distinct from Europe & other places when this is untrue and was a prejudiced way of painting them as interlopers. Ashkenazi Jews have a percentage of European DNA as well as ME, Jews from China, Ethiopia and India also. Both things can be accepted without denying Jews originate from the ME.

https://jewinthecity.com/2024/07/no-ashkenazi-jews-are-not-genetically-european/

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2023/02/24/the-sudan-connection-are-ethiopian-jews-descendants-of-the-ancient-israelites/

https://bukharianjewishlink.com/index.php/feature/5704-genetic-confirmation-the-jews-of-kaifeng-descend-from-mizrahi-jews

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4806850/

https://davidcycleback.substack.com/p/the-genetic-differences-between-ashkenazi

Sudan connection: Are Ethiopian Jews descendants of the ancient Israelites?

A broad suite of genetic and historical evidence points to an ancient Jewish heritage for Ethiopian Jews, contradicting established theory stating that Ethiopian Jews arose as a group of Ethiopian Christians who simply adopted Jewish religion.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2023/02/24/the-sudan-connection-are-ethiopian-jews-descendants-of-the-ancient-israelites/

rainingsnoring · Yesterday 03:29

There seem to be a lot of these sort of posts clearly designed just to create conflict and trouble. I know the Israeli elections are coming up but still.
The whole thread is totally disingenuous by the OP. He/she clearly has no interest in engaging with others who have made valid points. Several of the posts display a hatred and racism towards the Palestinians. Not okay @BlessedIsTheFruit.

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:30

mathanxiety · Yesterday 02:15

Why would you hope that, or believe that, or consider that possible, given the events that happened in Europe within living memory?

You don't even need to go to the horrors of the Holocaust.

Look at the Dreyfuss affair. A French officer in the French army. But, nope, falsely accused only because he was Jewish - because Jews cannot be loyal.

It was Deyfuss who inspired Theodor Herzl.

Anyyway, we can see now that Europe very easily turns on its Jews. Now you "can" be Jewsih, but only if you're the right type of Jew. It always has a different twist to it.

samthepigeon · Yesterday 03:37

Ketzele · 23/09/2026 21:53

I really wish we could move beyond a polarised discussion of who really is entitled to that land versus you can't just kick people out of their homes. It gets us precisely nowhere.

Look, both Jews and the people we now call Palestians have lived in the area for aeons. Communities ebbed and flowed, people passed through, some stayed. The land passed through the hands of various colonisers. In the early 20th century more and more Jews arrived, fleeing pogroms, getting their children to safety as any of us would. As you would expect, this wave of immigration was met with some resentment and resistance.

After Hitler came to power, the trickle became a flood, with many more Jews desperate to get to Israel, Britain or the US - but not being allowed in. At the end of the war the pressure to find a home for European Jews became intense; those Jews who tried to return to their European homes found nothing left, and sometimes experienced further pogroms. The last displaced persons camps in Europe didnt shut till the early 50s; they were stuffed with European Jews.

Meanwhile the British were being bombarded by Jewish terrorists in Israel, and Britain was fed up. So it did what it (and the other Allied powers) were doing all over the world and drew lines on a map. Think Israel was unique in having its populations suddenly find themselves on the wrong side of an arbitrary line? Look at India/Pakistan, look at Eastern Europe, look at Africa.

Israel's neighbours instantly attacked it (and drove out their own Jews). Israel drove many Palestinians out of their own homes. It was all ugly, and I think we can all agree it shouldn't have happened in the way it did.

But arguing now about whether Israel has a right to exist seems utterly pointless to me. It does exist. The only way to stop it existing is through genocide.

It is equally pointless to pretend that Palestinians don't also have a valid claim to the land, and of course the human rights to safety, security, homes and means of work.

So yes, it's a mess. But we have to look forward. In both South Africa and Northern Ireland, progress was only possible once it was accepted that whoever lived there first, all inhabitants had the right to live safely. Scared people make bad choices.

InterAct There is a movement for Peaceful Coexistence rather than a one state solution. Worth a try?

InterAct

https://www.iinteract.org/

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:39

Something which I didn't know until recently, incidentally, is that have Israeli Arab and Druze residents as well as Israeli Jewish residents are in the settlements, especially the less ideological one close to Ariel University .

:'There are 33 settlements with registered Arab residents. Ariel has the largest Arab population out of the settlements, with 573 Arab residents (mostly Ariel University students.) Several others, including Maale Adumim, Kfar Etzion, and Giv’at Ze’ev, have a few dozen (Shaul Arieli, Deceptive Appearances, 99). '

https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/

I have serious criticisms of Likud & people like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. But I also think both sides discuss the settlement program too simplistically. Some people doing it are extreme and there has been abuse of Palestinian Arabs there. But many settlers are primarily motivated by wanting more space etc than you can easily get in Tel Aviv etc, including the Arabs quoted here. Settlements aren't a homogenous block.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/leave-or-let-live-arabs-move-in-to-jewish-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D6/

West Bank Settlements Explained

Settlements are Israeli civilian communities, overwhelmingly inhabited by Jews, in territories acquired by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War that are not under Israeli sovereignty.

https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:42

If anyone is really interested (in good faith) in understanding the history of the Jews, Simon Schama has written two excellent books

The History of the Jews and Belonging

Highly recommend them both (they cover different periods)

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:43

Shatenoeuf · 23/09/2026 21:34

That we dont tend to look to where racial or ethnogroups lived thousands of years ago as part of a judgement as to where they should live now.

That would be like saying a black british kid who's never left leicestershire and his parents are from luton, is "african" because he's black. We don't do that in the uk... if anything we'd consider that racist...

In some ways a closer parallel would be saying Romani Gypsies are Indian as this is where they originated from in the 1400s-1500s, and their language is clearly linked to Punjabi.

The difference is that their identity has traditionally based around travelling rather than an eventual return to India. Until recently tests most didn't know, at least not for certain, that they originated from India.

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:43

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:39

Something which I didn't know until recently, incidentally, is that have Israeli Arab and Druze residents as well as Israeli Jewish residents are in the settlements, especially the less ideological one close to Ariel University .

:'There are 33 settlements with registered Arab residents. Ariel has the largest Arab population out of the settlements, with 573 Arab residents (mostly Ariel University students.) Several others, including Maale Adumim, Kfar Etzion, and Giv’at Ze’ev, have a few dozen (Shaul Arieli, Deceptive Appearances, 99). '

https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/

I have serious criticisms of Likud & people like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. But I also think both sides discuss the settlement program too simplistically. Some people doing it are extreme and there has been abuse of Palestinian Arabs there. But many settlers are primarily motivated by wanting more space etc than you can easily get in Tel Aviv etc, including the Arabs quoted here. Settlements aren't a homogenous block.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/leave-or-let-live-arabs-move-in-to-jewish-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D6/

Yes, of course. Because they are Israeli citizens. Which shows the problem is far more complicated than just those who scream 'apartheid'.

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:44

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:42

If anyone is really interested (in good faith) in understanding the history of the Jews, Simon Schama has written two excellent books

The History of the Jews and Belonging

Highly recommend them both (they cover different periods)

Yes, those are really good books. The paired documentary is good too.

Simon Montefiore's Jerusalem on the city specifically is also good.

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:55

ginkhao · Yesterday 03:43

Yes, of course. Because they are Israeli citizens. Which shows the problem is far more complicated than just those who scream 'apartheid'.

There is a legitimate case to be made that Arabs are disadvantaged in the Israeli state in various ways,,for various reasons, discrimination being one.

But imo the use of the word 'apartheid' is confusing at best and dishonest at worst. Non Jews in Israel are demonstrably not treated the way Black people were by Afrikaners. Israeli Jews are also ethnically diverse with Mizrahi, Ethiopian Beta Israel, Indian Bene Israel, a few of the Chinese Kaifeng Jews etc : these groups have faced discrimination but this diversity undermines the claim that even extremists are seeking an ethnically 'pure' state as such as the Afrikaners did. Clearly there IS racism towards Arabs but apartheid comparisons don't help anyone.

SpottyPyjama · Yesterday 03:57

The question in the title of this thread is missing the point. No one denies that Jewish people came from
the are that is now known as Palestine, Isreal and surrounding areas. Jewish people absolutely have the right to live there. But so do other people, and there is no need for Jewish people to hold all the power, especially given how badly they treat the Muslims and Christians
who came from exactly the same place and who
have equal right to live there.

samthepigeon · Yesterday 04:01

GaIadriel · 23/09/2026 22:57

For all this talk of anti semitism I've literally never encountered it IRL. Only people complaining about Muslims/Pakistanis and occasionally Romanians etc.

I concur, but then I live in an area where there are hardly any Jewish people and many people who are Muslim. The anti-Muslim sentiment then gets mixed up with people who are Sikh/Hindu/black/Eastern European, and is shocking and nasty.

ginkhao · Yesterday 04:05

Jane3212 · Yesterday 03:55

There is a legitimate case to be made that Arabs are disadvantaged in the Israeli state in various ways,,for various reasons, discrimination being one.

But imo the use of the word 'apartheid' is confusing at best and dishonest at worst. Non Jews in Israel are demonstrably not treated the way Black people were by Afrikaners. Israeli Jews are also ethnically diverse with Mizrahi, Ethiopian Beta Israel, Indian Bene Israel, a few of the Chinese Kaifeng Jews etc : these groups have faced discrimination but this diversity undermines the claim that even extremists are seeking an ethnically 'pure' state as such as the Afrikaners did. Clearly there IS racism towards Arabs but apartheid comparisons don't help anyone.

Yes, there is racism, discrimination and disadvantage. But that's different to apartheid and there's been a lot of progress in recent years depsite the increasing nationalist sentiment. I mean 25% of Israeli doctors are Arab and 70% of pharmacists!

If you lazily use an apartheid lens to try to undersand the Israel/Palestine conflict, it won't get you very far in understanding the problem.

To me, the crux of the problem is that there is effectively an Israeli military dictatorship in the WB and Gaza is a whole other issue. Ending the occupation is critical but I don't know how. I used to be for a two state solution but don't see how it's feasible anymore - because of Israeli settlement expansion but also because of the lack of any state building on the Palestinian side and what happened on7/10 when they had control of Gaza. So I am not sure anymore what is even possible and what we can work towards. It's easy enough to scream 'Free Palestine' but it's much harder to figure out what that actually means.

samthepigeon · Yesterday 04:08

CrazyMidget · 23/09/2026 23:26

Both Jews and Arabs have been in the region since the year dot. They both have a claim. Which is why they need to share. And not by shoving one people into ghettos. Properly sharing, like in the UK where Jews and Arabs are equal British citizens with equal rights and can live wherever they please.

InterAct Interact promotes peaceful co-existence instead of a two-state solution. Can it work? Well, the two-state solution clearly isn't, so maybe it is worth a try.

InterAct

https://www.iinteract.org/

samthepigeon · Yesterday 04:11

ErroltheSwampDragon · 23/09/2026 23:42

Forgot Mumsnet doesn't allow embedded pictures. @GaIadriel linked to previous comment.

All hate crime is to be deplored. We also have to be careful as much of it goes unreported, and certain communities are much less likely to report it than others.

ginkhao · Yesterday 04:12

samthepigeon · Yesterday 04:08

InterAct Interact promotes peaceful co-existence instead of a two-state solution. Can it work? Well, the two-state solution clearly isn't, so maybe it is worth a try.

I like what they do and what they stand for but don't see that they are offering a political solution.
Honetly, right now, both Israeli and Palestinians have become more extreme. So initiatives like this are all the more important. Maybe, eventually, some kind of bi-national state could emerge that would allow both people self determination in the same space. But in the short-medium term I don't see much hope on the horizon.

samthepigeon · Yesterday 04:21

OakleyAnnie · Yesterday 00:41

You might be surprised to know that Israel is 20% non-Jewish. Many Muslims and Christians with full rights as citizens of the country.

My understanding is that they don't have exactly the same status as Jews though. For example, Arab Israeli citizens who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza can face restrictions on bringing their spouses to live in Israel. Also the Arabic language has 'special status' rather than being regarded an official language.

Jane3212 · Yesterday 04:23

HermioneWeasley · 23/09/2026 20:12

It’s bizarre isn’t it?

I come from that general area (but not Israel or Gaza specifically) and my family are Muslim though I am an atheist.

it seems to me indisputable that Jews originate from that land. The Al Aqsa mosque is built on top of the temple of Solomon - how on earth can Jews returning to their ancestral land (having survived an actual genocide) possibly be regarded as colonisers?

I support the existence of Israel but it's worth remembering that Herzl and others explicitly used words like 'colonisation'. Back then of course colonisation was usually seen as a good thing in Europe, and Herzl's novel Old New Land has friendly attitudes towards Arabs, imagining beneficial coexistence, even if it seems a bit simplistic in places.

: Many of the fathers of Zionism described Zionist activity in Palestine as "colonization",[10] such as Vladimir Jabotinsky, who said "Zionism is a colonization adventure".[11][12][13][14] Theodore Herzl, in a 1902 letter to Cecil Rhodes, described the Zionist project as "something colonial".[15][16] Previously in 1896 he had spoken of "important experiments in colonization" happening in Palestine.[17][18] In 1905 Max Nordau said, "Zionism rejects on principle all colonization on a small scale, and the idea of 'sneaking' into Palestine", and that instead it advocates "that the existing and promising beginnings of a Jewish colonization shall be looked after and maintained till the movement will be possible on a large scale".[19]

Major Zionist organizations central to Israel's foundation held colonial identity in their names or departments, such as the Jewish Colonisation Association, the Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association, the Jewish Colonial Trust, and The Jewish Agency's colonization department.[21][

Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann wrote in his autobiography that at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference he had spoken to US Secretary of State Robert Lansing of "the hope that by Jewish immigration, Palestine would ultimately become as Jewish as England is English" and described how he had taken as his example "the outstanding success which the French had at that time made of Tunisia. What the French could do in Tunisia," Weizmann said, "the Jews would be able to do in Palestine".[28]

In a 1956 speech, Israeli Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan stated in regards to Palestinian political violence: "Who are we that we should argue against their hatred? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza and, before their very eyes we turn into our homestead the land and the villages in which they and their forefathers have lived. We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and the cannon we cannot plant a tree and build a home."[34][35]

(Yes, these are from Wikipedia, but they are all sourced, I'll paste here :
11.Jabotinsky, Ze'ev (December 1962). "The Iron Law". The Selected Writings of Ze'ev Jabotinsky (PDF). South African Betar. p. 26.
12. Liu, James H. (18 August 2022). Collective Remembering and the Making of Political Culture (1 ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 190. doi:10.1017/9781108985093.013. ISBN 978-1-108-98509-3.
13. Jabotinsky, Ze'ev (4 November 1923). "The Iron Wall" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 10 September 2024. Colonisation can have only one aim, and Palestine Arabs cannot accept this aim. It lies in the very nature of things, and in this particular regard nature cannot be changed...Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else proceed regardless of the native population.
15.Herzl, Theodor (11 January 1902). Complete Diaries. Vol. III. Translated by Zohn, Harry. Herzl Press. p. 1194 – via Internet Archive.
16. Bar-Yosef, Eitan (2012). "A Villa in the Jungle: Herzl, Zionist Culture, and the Great African Adventure". In Gelber, Mark H.; Liska, Vivian (eds.). Theodor Herzl: From Europe to Zion. De Gruyter. pp. 100–101. ISBN 978-3110936056.
17. Herzl, Theodor (1917) [1896]. A Jewish State. Translated by d'Avigdor, Sylvia. New York: Federation of American Zionists. p. 12. Here two territories come under consideration, Palestine and Argentina. In both countries important experiments in colonization have been made, though on the mistaken principle of a gradual infiltration of Jews. An infiltration is bound to end in disaster. It continues till the inevitable moment when the native population feels itself threatened, and forces the Government to stop the further influx of Jews. Immigration is consequently futile unless based on an assured supremacy.
19. Nordau, Max Simon; Gottheil, Gustav (1905). Zionism and Anti-Semitism. Fox, Duffield. p. 30
21–22. ISBN 978-1-6084-6470-8.
21. Stein, Kenneth W. (1 March 2017). The Land Question in Palestine, 1917-1939. University of North Carolina Press. p. 93. ISBN 978-1-4696-1725-1.
81.
28 Weizmann, Chaim (1949). Trial and Error: The Autobiography of Chaim Weizmann. Harper & Brothers. p. 244. LCCN 49048354. OCLC 408962.
34]Spangler, Eve (2015). "Four Frames". Understanding Israel/Palestine – Race, Nation, and Human Rights in the Conflict. Rotterdam: SensePublishers. p. 178. doi:10.1007/978-94-6300-088-8_9. ISBN 978-94-6300-088-8 – via Springer Nature (Wikipedia Library).

I don't think this colonisation language was good but it's dishonest for writers to claim, as some have, that it was never used. Personally, I think part of the issue was that it was hard to describe the goal of Israel as it was a unique project and there were lots of competing ideas. Herzl wasn't particularly attached to the land while obviously most people were. And he wanted it to speak German officially (tragically of course he could not know what would happen there after he died). And framing it as colonisation was a good way to make it understandable and appealing to European states.

No country is perfect and I support Israel's right to exist just as much as any other flawed country which is all of them. I support a 2 state solution ideally but not at the moment definitely.