Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

The name Judea stopped being used over 1,000 years ago! You are claiming a lace from 1,000 years ago.

That does not make sense.

How about they claim it because they bought large parcels of the land (and therefore legally own the title deeds) and then the UN confirmed it was theirs almost 80 years ago? Or what is the exact number of years needed for a country to be allowed to continue to exist in your expert opinion?

I was responding to your comment where you said you had never experienced it.

I'm not sure what you mean about "wanging on about it". Do you mean about antisemitism? I don't think social media helps but its definitely not the only source of antisemitism/hate.

I don't think we have any conclusive evidence as to who is perpetrating the hate (I don't think the govt releases that?) but agree that there is definitely a lot of religious/ideological motivation (and yes, he was Syrian). A lot of the stuff I hear day to day seems to come from stupidity, though.

In terms of overall numbers of crimes, Jews experienced less than Muslims overall, but more per person (see table below) and link https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2025/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2025

Forgot Mumsnet doesn't allow embedded pictures. @GaIadriel linked to previous comment.

Interesting that you’ve mentioned Saudi Arabia but not any of the other 50 something Muslim countries. The point about Jews is there is literally one country that is Jewish. And many people in this world (and thread) don’t think the Jews deserve to have autonomy and self rule like every other nation.

Most of the land israel purchased was barren desert which they then built into cities from the ground up. The notion that they "stole" land is ridiculous

Found other places to live as second class citizens. We didn't have equal rights to Muslims in the Arab world or as non-Jews in Europe. It's amazing how many people seem oblivious to this.

To be clear, Jews in eg Iran still to this day don't have the same rights as their Muslim neighbours. Jewish people are still second class citizens there today.

It illustrates that a person doesn’t usually automatically have the right to live somewhere just because their ancestors come from there.

I kind of agree with this. Today Israel exists where it is so it should continue to exist where it is.

I don't disagree with OPs position that merely because Jews lived in that area previously they have a superior claim to that area compared to everyone else. That's a really poor claim and obviously can't be applied universally. it would set a pretty crazy precedent around the world, which unfortunately just isn't workable in the way our world currently works.

However this ancestral claim isn't Israel's only reason for existence. A much stronger claim is that after thousands of years of persecution everywhere that Jews have lived the Jewish people needed a state of their own because they were not safe anywhere else. Whether the current area was the best place for it I don't know but I guess because of their ancestral connection it made the most sense. Other areas were actually considered but dismissed. Also, irrespective of where Israel was created it would have led to conflict with and displacement of the local population.

Anyway, it was decided that this area first under British and then under UN mandate would become Israel. And they did propose a two state solution which was rejected by the Arab side because I assume they obviously thought why should they give up more than 50% of their land.

Anyway, so I do think Israel should exist not because they have more right than anyone else to that area but because they need a place to live in. Equally Palestinians need a place to exist and the illegal settlements threaten that or rather are symbolic of how disenfranchised the Palestinians actually are.

Why are they robbing people in the West Bank?

Should I log on tomorrow morning for the Mumsnet Eastenders spoilers?
I feel threatened & unsafe (I'm being serious!) by Antisemitism and anti-Israel threads & posts.

I'm fed up with the hate!
I'm Jewish.
I'm British, my Grandfather's were in WW2 in the Navy & Army, my family's been in the UK for over 100 years, and I feel that it's not if but when my family and I move to Israel.
Happy now everyone? By the way, we'll no longer be contributing to the UK economy, so good luck with the declining cash available to pay for necessary services.
Hope the newcomers can bring money into the UK.

Really that's not how your original post comes across but as long as you think you're not doing any harm what could possibly be wrong with it.

This makes sense, imo.

That's exactly my point. I don't have a right to live there just because my ancestors hail from there. I would need to apply for an oci and it's at the Indian government's discretion if I'm granted one or not

Which won't work.

Forgive my ignorance. But genuinely curious why Austria has to pay for it. Hitler was born in Austria but it was Germans which gave him the absolute power.

There are plenty of decent people who give their support to the Jewish community. Racism gets thrown out a lot on Mumsnet but it's quiet when antisemitism is discussed. This thread was iffy from the off and it has ended up being a dog whistle for all the usual racists from the CITME board.

You will be granted OCI but a complete foreigner won’t be. OCI is not equivalent to visas and permits. It’s a special status.

nobodys got the right to take anyones house anywhere.

As a Jewish person, I could under the right of return, go and live in Israel. No ones giving me a free house though, I would have to buy it or rent one.

Just like a person of Irish descent (who doesn't even live here!) can claim Irish citizenship for the cost of a passport, while I, who has lived and paid taxes in Ireland for decades, have to pay a lot of money and fill out numerous forms to get my citizenship.

I'm not really sure where I am meant to go.

Back to Germany or Poland where some of my grandparents come from? It was nice while it lasted but I am only around because my grandparents/great grandparents saw the writing on the wall and left.

Israel - clearly the worst sin possible according to many in the world. (But, I don't really care)

Stay in Ireland,* where its becoming more and more antisemitic by the day.

*subsitute UK, USA, Canada or really any other western country for Ireland, they are all just as bad or worse in some ways. I just live in Ireland.

Because the individuals doing that are bad people?

Should Iraq cease to exist because they stole literally everything from my husband's family? Should Australia cease to exist because they stole land from the indigenous people who lived there? And not only land, they stole their children too. Forcibly removed them from their families.

Or can we agree that these imperfect countries exist and therefore should be allowed to continue to do so? Israel has a fuck tonne of issues, but no capacity to deal with any of them because they're instead having to fight for their right to exist. Israelis would love nothing more than to have the time and head space to deal with their countries blatant problems. But instead they had October 7th, and threats of more of them to come in the future. Stop threatening their existence and I'm sure the people of Israel will do what they do best - protest against government policies until they call for an election. Again. And again. And again.

I'm off to bed.
If this thread was about any other country or religion, it either wouldn't have been created in the first place or would have deleted by mods.

OP, dress it up however you want: I'm not stupid and this thread is rage-bait.
Laila-tov all.

If there is an implication that Palestinians can be moved out of land because they don’t have the right DNA, that also comes across as racist.

Why are you being so deliberately obtuse?

This is an interesting discussion and you seem intent on ruining it.

Is the argument that too much time passed to just 'reclaim' it and so now they're doing the same to a group of people that they complain happened to them.. effectively stating that two wrongs make a right? Or is it that kicking people out of their land 'for any reason you deem valid' is always fine?

I have no skin in the game. I'm just curious how far back we go before we accept we can't just take things from people any more.

You've no skin in the game, but ...

@Humdingerydoo and @Downloadfilms Shalom x ♥️