Where do you think Jewish people come from?

[BlessedIsTheFruit]

Antisemitism is at full volume at the moment and I caveat this post with saying that I have absolutely no wish to make Jewish MNers feel uncomfortable but as an an atheist with no connection to Israel this really makes my blood boil.

I see so many SM posts about the Jews having 'colonized' Israel and Judea & Samaria, not having any claim to the land, not being indigenous and of course being 'Europeans settlers'.

They can't answer where they actually come from though so I thought anyone on here who shares their views might be able to give an answer and how they came to that conclusion.

I understand that Jews are an ethnicity with Judaism as their religion. Being Jewish is not a religion. Jews are still today spread out all over the world with the majority living in Israel and the US.

This has come into focus since the UK Government sanctions on Jewish businesses in Judea & Samaria recently with Jewish communities living there classed as 'illegal settlers'.

It's almost as if Jews and Judea have no connection at all.

So AIBU to ask where the Jews originated from if not from there?

I don't feel this belongs on the CITME board as although the war in Gaza has amplified beliefs, this not directly about that.

But by that logic everyone should have the right to go back to where they came from, or put another way, the original people of a land have the right to force current residents out.

So, in terms of our own country - all Northern Irish British should, as the IRA say, leave, come back here and hand the place back to the Irish; Australians should leave, come back here and give Australia back to the aboriginals; ditto the Canadians and Americans with British ancestry. Then there are the Scots, the Welsh and so on.

That can be applied to almost every country in the world. I mean, the argument does not really stand up.

Hey Mumsnet, any reply to my report of this thread?
This thread is under AIBU, I view this as a thread designed to provoke argument, rather than gather information.

From what I know and understand and I may be wrong, is that Judaism was a more ancient religion then Christianity and then Islam was born out of it. And that Jude’s and Jerusalem and the lands around are where all these three religions formed. I also understand that being Jewish can only legitimately be passed down the maternal line. And that there are different sects within all these religions. So I think the claim on land is actually a very ancient one, and predates Christianity and Islam. But it’s a very interesting topic. Some of my family did a dna test and amongst many other lineage we had Ashkenazi Jewish dna, which ai had no idea what that is so looked it up and it’s the ancient Jewish population that left the Middle Eastern regions and spread across Europe and now further. Although not one person in my family tree which does go back quite a way and Ibhave researched it, has any Jewish names, surnames or is registered as Jewish, for 100s of years back. So this must have been from those first Jewish dispora a very long time ago. So dna and religion are very different. There are probably lots of people with Jewish dna who have no connection with the religion.

Are you saying you were an eyewitness to the Mancs synagogue attack? I can't imagine it's that common to have seen something like that IRL.

Awful thing to say and she's no shame in saying it. Even sent me a like reaction when I showed my disgust.

Sometimes I reflect how the longest and most bitter and bloody disputes in history all come down to land. Not wealth and titles or whathaveyou, but land. See Israel, Ireland, Ukraine, for a start. Which just goes to show how human beings cannot share. Which goes to show that we are deeply tribal and therefore not built for co-operation. Which is explained by the fact that we have a common ancestor with chimpanzees, per Jarod Diamond in The Third Chimpanzee.

In the book's sections on warfare and conquest, Diamond argues that our capacity for xenophobia, territoriality, and group-against-group slaughter (genocide) is deeply rooted in our primate heritage. When The Third Chimpanzee was written, Jane Goodall and other researchers had recently shocked the world by discovering that common chimpanzees engage in "lethal raiding"—where bands of males systematically stalk, ambush, and murder members of neighboring groups to expand their territory. 1, 2, 3, 4]

Basically, until we stop behaving like chimps, wars will rage around the world - as they in fact do.

Americans are not all descendants of British. From point of view of Native Americans, Americans with Europeans ancestry returning to Europe might be a good thing.

I'm saying that there is clear evidence of the extreme levels of antisemitism. You and I not having personally witnessed the attacks, or other antisemitism (though I've certainly seen and heard plenty), does not mean it isn't happening and isn't having a huge impact on the Jewish community.

I would not deny bigotry experienced by any other group (especially when it made national headlines), just because I didn't experience it. Do you?

I think you’ve spectacularly missed the point there

It's worked as well. I predicted its deletion an hour ago. Will see if it's still here in the morning.

I think it's just flavour of the month for many now that things like the plight of women in Afghanistan etc seem to have been forgotten by many.

What happened to two things being true at once?

My simplified version is that Israel belongs to the Jews and they should, do what they need to do keep their own country. As they will.

You can live in India. All you need is overseas citizens passport. Only thing you are not allowed is voting and purchase of agricultural land.

Visas and permits are for foreigners with no ethnicity connection to India.

Both Jews and Arabs have been in the region since the year dot. They both have a claim. Which is why they need to share. And not by shoving one people into ghettos. Properly sharing, like in the UK where Jews and Arabs are equal British citizens with equal rights and can live wherever they please.

Haaretz (respected Israeli Jewish newspaper) 2015

^Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
Jews break down into three genetic groups, all of which have Middle Eastern origins - which are shared with the Palestinians and Druze.^

(I am sorry, I can’t link the whole article.)

Israel would have more sympathy if they were not claiming the land on the basis of 2000-year old title deeds from god.

My brother was beaten up as a tween for wearing a star of David. My synagogue (not in the UK) has had molotov cocktails thrown at it more than once. As a completely non-political 13 year old who hadn't even visited Israel since age 3 and genuinely didn't know anything about the political situation, my school locker was the only one covered in "Free Palestine" stickers. I was told that Jews should all move to Florida as that's apparently where we're all from. A colleague told me that Jews control all the media and are all rich. Walking home from synagogue on Shabbat with my religious friends who wear kippot we would be regularly met with racist nutjobs outside M&S who would demand to know our opinion on Israel. No one else walking past was harassed, only those who were visibly Jewish.

Exactly. The things aren’t going so great here these days. I would quite like to move. I’m am appealing candidate to most countries until they get to the health portion. I’ll be staying in the good old USA.

If I could just “decolonize” my problems would be solved.

and again, Israel has been there for 75 years now. It shouldn’t be going anywhere. I’m making a strictly logical argument nor about a specific country.

So awful. I'm really sorry. 💔💐

Of course they do. But Jewish people were breeding within their small ethnic groups in order to stay Jewish thus they will differ now from Palestinians who had larger genetic pool during last 2000 years.

And where did I deny that it happens?

I'm just saying that half the people wanging on about it likely wouldn't be giving it a second's thought had they no internet/SM access. Bit like the trans bathroom thing. Much as I'm GC leaning I've never actually seen a bloke in the changing rooms.

I think Jews get far less flack from the general public than the 'boat people', Muslims, and the general targets of Tommy Robinson-esque sentiments. It's mostly religious/ideologically motivated. Wasn't the Mancs perpetrator a Syrian bloke?

There were plenty of fucking eye witnesses there. Just like there were at Bondi. And in Pittsburgh. In Colorado. Outside my kids' primary school (Jewish) when the antisemitic plebs drove past with megaphones shouting "Free Palestine".

Don't dignify her with a response x the posts have been reported. Sure I'm not the only one.

‘Well they found other places to live in the intervening 200 years’…
in peace, security and happiness. Oh no wait…