To be disappointed Dolly Parton supported biological men using women's toilets?

[Jane3212]

I really liked her music and she seemed like a nice person: her Imagination Library came to my borough recently. I was very sad to hear she'd died.
But was very disappointed to read this. The statements she made about trans people deserving respect, no issue with those.
But minimising the reasonable concerns women have about being forced to let men in their toilets was wrong.
I'm not saying she should have spoken out for GC issues. It might have been best just not to comment.
Parton had connections with drag queens and I wonder if that's the lens she saw transwomen through : not an excuse but might partially explain.

You’re welcome. 🤣

Did she actually say she believed that trans women were women? I don’t think she did. She made a general comment on peeing to keep everyone happy in true Dolly fashion.

I haven’t RTFT but I don’t think she did support biological men using women’s spaces, or at least her public comments on the matter don’t support that conclusion.

The quote you highlighted is a very wishy-washy ‘don’t want to get involved - #be kind’ type response, which is fine, I’m not criticising her for that, who could be arsed with the death/rape threats for saying otherwise? But it’s not an unequivocal ‘TWAW’ statement.

Dolly lasted 6 decades in the music industry by being as uncontroversial as possible. Her comments on this issue are exactly what I’d expect them to be and even tho I’m GC I’m glad she never said anything that TRAs would deem ‘transphobic’ - she deserved to live her final years in peace.

That’s totally fair, I think she was a nice person who just wanted everyone to get along. I mean, she was old, the last thing she’d need would be people baying for her blood whichever side she chose.

Wasn't a "TRA" who started the thread.

I think I called it on about page 2 or something that it'd turn into nothing to do with Dolly by the end and just the same old FWR people having an identical trans thread going round between themselves for 40 pages lol
So predictable.

Edited to say - page 7. 😁

I wonder if that poster did actually read the thread in the end, as they jumped in right near the beginning admitting they hadn't even read it (as they were going out and didn't have time)
Yet still funnily enough knew who to disagree with when they hadn't even read posts

I just ignore her now.

Have you read the full thread? One "side" started describing sides and now one is full of illogical silly women / handmaidens. Oh and that we're "fun feminists. I would be very impressed if a primary school child understood and could articulate the coalition between right wing men and gender critical feminism. It's funny how to avoid engaging in a discussion about it, the points been called both pompous and too articulate and cccused of being AI and also primary level - bizarre! Oh and of course calling a woman hot and bothered. Your misogyny bingo is going well, women's rights eh?

Didn’t say it was

GC’s might express disappointment if someone they admire comes out to support men in women’s spaces. They might even call those people handmaidens/dick panderers- unkind maybe -but nobody is hiring extra security because they upset ‘terfs’.

TRAs on the other hand will bay for blood if they get the tiniest whiff of dissidence. Keira Knightly, for example, was hounded for her ‘meh’ response on this issue. They’ll bombard the dissenter with death threats - try to cancel them - publish their addresses online….they're relentless!

This idea of a ‘coalition’ is nonsense. These are disparate groups of people who simply believe that humans can’t change sex and that gender identity is not more important than sex when it comes to sex specific spaces.

This was a completely unremarkable thought ten years ago.

The question is not why GC women and right wing men believe this. The question is why did some on the left talk themselves out of this perfectly standard position?

I genuinely can't understand why you don't seem to follow someone isn't trying to "outsmart" you by asking you to actually stand by a point you raised. If you wanna raise the supreme court, all you were asked to do was explain it's relevance, pretty standard good faith debate.

Meh, I think you need to get over it. She's dead.

They're disparate in their intentions, aligned in their goals. You love to mingle with them online and at rallies though.youre welcome to work disparately if you don't wanna be bedfellows.

Who is 'you'?

What do you mean by 'mingling' online? How does one 'mingle' on the internet?

I've not been to any rallies personally.

My goal is simply to preserve women's sex based rights. I would love to understand what is so problematic about that goal?

if you need me to explain the relevance of the supreme court ruling in a discussion which has moved on to the sex based rights of females, then it’s you acting in bad faith, not me.

This is human beings you're talking about.

Anti feminism is alive and well on this thread.

Read that back.

I’m starting to wonder if half term has arrived early or Reddit is down. Jeez.

Are you bored OP

The UK is now one of the most unsafe places for trans people. It's like a rerun of section 28. Far right ideology.

I can see OP point, and she is allowed to make it freely. Dolly was allowed her view too. I can’t however foresee Dolly using said toilets given her status or changing rooms in question, so I think the viewpoints of female users are more important.

I try to avoid them personally. You could have some woman threatening you for looking at her "funny" or fancying her "man".

Then you could (apparently) have another woman washing her knickers in the sink due to a period accident according to GCs, and to top it all off, there could be a couple in a cubicle pished and having rampant drunken sex.

Safe places though...

You keep quoting the same bits but she still doesn't say that male bodied people should be allowed in female toilets. The implication is just hat she isn't bothered and will pee when she needs to pee but she doesn't even say that explicitly.

Personally I believe that transpeople deserve respect and not to be discriminated against but I also believe that women have the right to female only spaces. I don't have the answers. Trans women do not feel safe in male bathrooms. They need to pee somewhere. Personally, I don't mind genuine trans women being in the same bathroom as me so long as there are individual lockable cubicles. I obviously object to men pretending to be women in order to access female only spaces.

My son has a friend who is a trans man. While he will argue that trans women and trans men should be allowed to use the toilet of their trans gender, he still uses the womens toilets as he feels safer and is not male passing. He fears abuse in the men's toilet as do trans women. For years, people have just used the bathrooms of the sex they most resembled without issue.

I don't know the answer unless it is to make all toilets uni sex with individual lockable toilets with a wash basin or to have a third space which has this and is available to all. Both of these will take time to implement. In the meantime, the law is struggling to protect everyone.