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To be disappointed Dolly Parton supported biological men using women's toilets?

1000 replies

Jane3212 · 21/09/2026 00:44

I really liked her music and she seemed like a nice person: her Imagination Library came to my borough recently. I was very sad to hear she'd died.
But was very disappointed to read this. The statements she made about trans people deserving respect, no issue with those.
But minimising the reasonable concerns women have about being forced to let men in their toilets was wrong.
I'm not saying she should have spoken out for GC issues. It might have been best just not to comment.
Parton had connections with drag queens and I wonder if that's the lens she saw transwomen through : not an excuse but might partially explain.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Rollingpinofdoom · 26/09/2026 23:30

over50andfab · 26/09/2026 21:54

So you’re saying trans people can still continue to exist, identifying as the gender they align with. Some people don’t think this.

But they can. They totally can wear whatever they like, as long as they use any facilities relevant to their sex.

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 01:15

Good things to come out of this is hopefully more places will invest in proper regulated accessible toilets. These should be the most well cared for and monitored toilets. Anyone can use these who needs to if they are for both sexes (they usually are to meet the needs of when the carer is a different sex to an adult non ambulant user). I would love to see a new accessible design in single sex accommodation as many non ambulant users would benefit from single sex toilet design too. Many non ambulant users are independent and can transfer themselves. This larger toilet compartment would be great for parents with pushchairs too.

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 06:06

Keeptoiletssafe · 26/09/2026 23:05

@Differentforgirls re prisons. Lots of men break the law in toilets. Look back at my posts. That’s why we have regulations, sexual offence law, legislation and standards that try and mitigate against harm in toilets. In prison you will find men who have committed the worst offences.

There’s not much appetite for prosecuting men having consensual sex with men in toilets like there was in the 80s and 90s when hundreds were prosecuted (in what would be unthinkable nowadays, police laid traps and even drilled holes in ceilings to photograph men), but it’s still illegal. The more modern answer to cottaging (Victorians built toilets to resemble cottages) is to close all the toilets down. This affects women, the elderly and disabled more. Estimates reckon we’ve lost more public toilets than we’ve retained from misuse (sex, drugs and vandalism) and the cost of maintaining them. The above isn’t homophobic, it’s factual.

Now provision in venues and businesses is relied on more for public sanitation. There are even certain community schemes run by the council for this. There’s still a lot of urinating in the streets (not something you can go to prison for unless there’s other factors, but you can be fined). But there always were men aiming at buildings (it’s why many buildings have urine deflectors like the Bank of England).

Now on to men in women’s toilets. I have so many examples. However I will concentrate on some examples that are relevant to this thread.
For example, this man who said he was a transwoman:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ian-wright-british-transport-police-birmingham-crown-court-b2286717.html
And this man who said he identified as a woman:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/paedophile-secretly-filmed-women-public-28737673.amp

Since the Supreme Court made it clear women’s toilets were always for women, these men no longer can argue that being a transwoman (albeit for the time they are in the women’s toilets) means they have access to women’s toilets. Women are very reticent to speak out. It has made it much easier now - the amount of protesting has handily made it crystal clear to everybody. It makes it safer for everyone as single sex toilets can retain the safest designs.

Whose policing them?

over50andfab · 27/09/2026 09:01

Rollingpinofdoom · 26/09/2026 23:30

But they can. They totally can wear whatever they like, as long as they use any facilities relevant to their sex.

My question was about identity rather than dress - eg a trans man identifying as male with preferred pronouns and vice versa. Good to see though that you and Wes agree they can continue to exist in identifying as trans.

Rollingpinofdoom · 27/09/2026 09:05

over50andfab · 27/09/2026 09:01

My question was about identity rather than dress - eg a trans man identifying as male with preferred pronouns and vice versa. Good to see though that you and Wes agree they can continue to exist in identifying as trans.

Of course. They can totally call themselves trans. It’s like when people call themselves Lord of wherever or that they own a piece of the moon because they bought one of those packs off the internet that gives you a certificate. Doesn’t mean they’re really a Lord or entitled to a bit of the moon. I know. I checked.
As long as people use any spaces and facilities relevant to their sex, and don’t demand other people indulge their “identity”, it’s all good.

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 09:39

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 06:06

Whose policing them?

Prison wardens

FrippEnos · 27/09/2026 09:50

Differentforgirls · 26/09/2026 21:58

Yes. Because no one ever breaks the law. That’s why we don’t have things called prisons.🤦‍♀️

I'm not sure who pissed on your chips?
There is no reason to get snarky.

The vast majority off laws are not policed because social convention dictates that you don't break the law.

There have always been people that broke the law, but with men in toilets at least the transsexuals try and pass as women.

Now many of the transgender women no longer try and pass and it has become a thing that a trans person looks like a trans person, not the sex that they were trying to emulate.

nb the TRAs have spent many years trying to remove the word transsecual from common usage and put forward that it is a slur, whereas the actual transsexuals are trying to take the word back.

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 10:02

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 09:39

Prison wardens

Public toilets?

WouldYouLikeAnyToast · 27/09/2026 10:17

Hyperbole. No one has said they shouldn’t or don’t exist

You're not the poster who said "Time's up for TIMS.
and "the sooner this will end" which was what the person you're quoting was referring to.
They should come back and clarify what they mean.
Or maybe you're pretending you can't see that post or can't be arsed to read the thread like before?

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 10:20

FrippEnos · 27/09/2026 09:50

I'm not sure who pissed on your chips?
There is no reason to get snarky.

The vast majority off laws are not policed because social convention dictates that you don't break the law.

There have always been people that broke the law, but with men in toilets at least the transsexuals try and pass as women.

Now many of the transgender women no longer try and pass and it has become a thing that a trans person looks like a trans person, not the sex that they were trying to emulate.

nb the TRAs have spent many years trying to remove the word transsecual from common usage and put forward that it is a slur, whereas the actual transsexuals are trying to take the word back.

🥱

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/09/2026 10:36

WouldYouLikeAnyToast · 27/09/2026 10:17

Hyperbole. No one has said they shouldn’t or don’t exist

You're not the poster who said "Time's up for TIMS.
and "the sooner this will end" which was what the person you're quoting was referring to.
They should come back and clarify what they mean.
Or maybe you're pretending you can't see that post or can't be arsed to read the thread like before?

That still doesn’t equate to they shouldn’t or don’t exist, to me anyway. Maybe they meant times up for using women’s spaces, which they shouldn’t be doing anyway. The poster may or may not come back to clarify.

I can’t really be arsed reading the thread anymore no, just the same bad faith posting and disingenuity that they accuse others of doing from the usual actors and ‘I don’t want to engage with you!’ but responds to my posts that don’t concern them.

950 odd posts in and still no explanation on why women shouldn’t have the right to SSS, which is all I was really interested in. Shocked I tell thee 🙄.

SpiderInMyShoe · 27/09/2026 11:21

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

I posted this question to you re: FWR’s particular feminist ideology a few days ago but I never had an answer either.

Can you tell me what it is, then? It doesn’t appear to me to be any type of recognisable kind of feminism, but I’m here for the education.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/09/2026 11:24

SpiderInMyShoe · 27/09/2026 11:21

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

I posted this question to you re: FWR’s particular feminist ideology a few days ago but I never had an answer either.

Can you tell me what it is, then? It doesn’t appear to me to be any type of recognisable kind of feminism, but I’m here for the education.

What is FWR’s particular feminist ideology?

I’ve already explained my position in the thread.

SpiderInMyShoe · 27/09/2026 11:33

Well, no, you didn’t. That’s the point. I asked you to explain it more clearly as it can seem nebulous and ever-changing at times - but never saw a reply.

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 11:44

@Differentforgirls it sounds like you don’t know much about UK design. American toilet design is different but it has influenced UK toilet design recently.

Over the years there’s been a couple of people who suggest the solution of having attendants at every public and venue (and school?) toilet. One was a high up person working involved in government. I asked how this would work practically and she got cross very quickly and admitted it wouldn’t work.

Another variation on the theme was an American man who designed ‘inclusive’ toilets, heralding it as a continuation of a civil rights movement. He makes money internationally discussing inclusivity and toilets. He admitted he hadn’t done risk assessments and post analysis at the lecture I saw, despite some very extensive installations in public buildings and education establishments. He reckoned his private designs were safe as there’s ‘safety in numbers’ which ‘reduces risks of predation
associated with being alone and out of sight’. This relies on enough good people watching the toilets for longer than the period of time they need to use it, presumably the good people doing their own mini risk assessments of who is going into which private toilet with whom, guessing the probabilities of them misusing the toilet and for how long they are in there in case they are trapped or are ill and need assistance. Then knocking on the door or finding someone to knock on the door to find out what’s happening. Back in the real world, that doesn’t work either. Good people aren’t hanging around the toilets watching everyone and taking note. That’s why people can be left in public toilets for hours or days. Contrast that to a single sex design with a floor-door gap where you can see someone is in trouble immediately. In the U.K. that’s the only design that is allowed to have toilet door gaps when it’s in a single sex environment.

The reason I have been very interested in the American’s designs is that there was a UK government commissioned report on design for toilets for people with long term health conditions. You would have thought this report would look at the needs of millions with conditions such as heart disease (11% of cardiac arrests happen in the toilet), stroke collapse, epilepsy, diabetes, endometriosis. It did not. It recommended an enclosed design for people with long term health conditions with literature evidence based on an opinion article co-authored by the American designer. To be fair, his article was not looking at people with long term health conditions. It was recommending a design based on transactivists preferences for enclosed toilets in trendy American nightclubs. Here is the direct quote: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single
open space with fully enclosed stalls’.

It is not transphobic to point out that these enclosed designs are not good for people at their most vulnerable. A trans person overdosing or having a seizure or a mental health crisis will be at risk too. The design elements are in conflict. If you are advising the government on toilet designs for people with long term health conditions, you should be basing your literature evidence on the needs of people with long term health conditions.

When you are designing a necessary facility, health and safety take priority. I want to keep toilets safe. Complete privacy removes the indirect supervision for medical emergencies or being trapped and creates an environment for misuse. You may not realise how many people do require urgent assistance in toilets but it is the place people go to when ill so as a location it’s a place people collapse. Ventilation and hygiene are compromised too in enclosed toilets.

I want safe toilets for everyone. ‘Inclusive’ design is a misnomer. It’s best for healthy men who are usually the ones designing, promoting, and arguing for them as they don’t recognise the risks.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/09/2026 11:44

SpiderInMyShoe · 27/09/2026 11:33

Well, no, you didn’t. That’s the point. I asked you to explain it more clearly as it can seem nebulous and ever-changing at times - but never saw a reply.

I have explained my position, numerous times on my thoughts on women’s rights to SSS. I’m of the ‘you can have your own opinions you can’t have your own facts’ persuasion.

I have no idea what ‘FWR ideology’ entails so I can’t explain it or what it’s meant to be so its news to me that I apparently adhere to it. Is there even one? Or do the posters there just believe sex is real, immutable and important in certain situations? Why don’t you ask on the FWR board?

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:49

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 11:44

@Differentforgirls it sounds like you don’t know much about UK design. American toilet design is different but it has influenced UK toilet design recently.

Over the years there’s been a couple of people who suggest the solution of having attendants at every public and venue (and school?) toilet. One was a high up person working involved in government. I asked how this would work practically and she got cross very quickly and admitted it wouldn’t work.

Another variation on the theme was an American man who designed ‘inclusive’ toilets, heralding it as a continuation of a civil rights movement. He makes money internationally discussing inclusivity and toilets. He admitted he hadn’t done risk assessments and post analysis at the lecture I saw, despite some very extensive installations in public buildings and education establishments. He reckoned his private designs were safe as there’s ‘safety in numbers’ which ‘reduces risks of predation
associated with being alone and out of sight’. This relies on enough good people watching the toilets for longer than the period of time they need to use it, presumably the good people doing their own mini risk assessments of who is going into which private toilet with whom, guessing the probabilities of them misusing the toilet and for how long they are in there in case they are trapped or are ill and need assistance. Then knocking on the door or finding someone to knock on the door to find out what’s happening. Back in the real world, that doesn’t work either. Good people aren’t hanging around the toilets watching everyone and taking note. That’s why people can be left in public toilets for hours or days. Contrast that to a single sex design with a floor-door gap where you can see someone is in trouble immediately. In the U.K. that’s the only design that is allowed to have toilet door gaps when it’s in a single sex environment.

The reason I have been very interested in the American’s designs is that there was a UK government commissioned report on design for toilets for people with long term health conditions. You would have thought this report would look at the needs of millions with conditions such as heart disease (11% of cardiac arrests happen in the toilet), stroke collapse, epilepsy, diabetes, endometriosis. It did not. It recommended an enclosed design for people with long term health conditions with literature evidence based on an opinion article co-authored by the American designer. To be fair, his article was not looking at people with long term health conditions. It was recommending a design based on transactivists preferences for enclosed toilets in trendy American nightclubs. Here is the direct quote: ‘A better solution, supported by many transactivists, and increasingly found in trendy nightclubs and restaurants, is to eliminate gender-segregated facilities entirely and treat the public restroom as one single
open space with fully enclosed stalls’.

It is not transphobic to point out that these enclosed designs are not good for people at their most vulnerable. A trans person overdosing or having a seizure or a mental health crisis will be at risk too. The design elements are in conflict. If you are advising the government on toilet designs for people with long term health conditions, you should be basing your literature evidence on the needs of people with long term health conditions.

When you are designing a necessary facility, health and safety take priority. I want to keep toilets safe. Complete privacy removes the indirect supervision for medical emergencies or being trapped and creates an environment for misuse. You may not realise how many people do require urgent assistance in toilets but it is the place people go to when ill so as a location it’s a place people collapse. Ventilation and hygiene are compromised too in enclosed toilets.

I want safe toilets for everyone. ‘Inclusive’ design is a misnomer. It’s best for healthy men who are usually the ones designing, promoting, and arguing for them as they don’t recognise the risks.

I'm sorry but your hobby isn't as interesting to me as it is to you.

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:50

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:49

I'm sorry but your hobby isn't as interesting to me as it is to you.

Plus I live in the UK.

Abitofalark · 27/09/2026 11:53

Do people even know what FWR is?

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 11:55

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:49

I'm sorry but your hobby isn't as interesting to me as it is to you.

I am on the side of safest toilets.
That happens to agree with health and safety building regs as they are on the side of safe toilets too.
On this thread you have been more interested in where I come from and what I do than in safe toilets. All I have told you is that I am from the UK.

Edit: the reason I asked which country you were from (you didn’t answer before) was I was patiently trying to explain how regs and legislation differ in this country.
Dolly was from America where they have different toilets.

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:57

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 11:55

I am on the side of safest toilets.
That happens to agree with health and safety building regs as they are on the side of safe toilets too.
On this thread you have been more interested in where I come from and what I do than in safe toilets. All I have told you is that I am from the UK.

Edit: the reason I asked which country you were from (you didn’t answer before) was I was patiently trying to explain how regs and legislation differ in this country.
Dolly was from America where they have different toilets.

Edited

I am not interested AT ALL.

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 12:03

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 11:57

I am not interested AT ALL.

So I am interested in researching safe toilets and explained at length about design. You have spent much time and effort arguing on a thread about toilets. To what purpose?

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 12:05

It's like being captured by the most boring person at a party 😫

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 27/09/2026 12:06

Abitofalark · 27/09/2026 11:53

Do people even know what FWR is?

It upsets a lot of people apparently and ‘sets feminism back’ 🤷‍♀️. Not sure how but hey ho.

Keeptoiletssafe · 27/09/2026 12:10

Differentforgirls · 27/09/2026 12:05

It's like being captured by the most boring person at a party 😫

I will take that as a compliment. Health and Safety has a reputation for being so exciting!! Well no, not really.
If you mean sex, drugs and rockin the bowl - toilets are up there. It’s not the aim for a sanitary convenience though.

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