AIBU to think migrant sex crime data should be published? And to wonder why Labour are blocking the release of that data?

[Fabiansrule]

Labour Blocks Release of Migrant Crime Data

'Victims of serious crimes and their families have joined forces to demand that the Labour government publish detailed data on offences committed by foreign nationals, accusing ministers of withholding information that is “clearly and legitimately in the public interest”.

Among the signatories are victims of high-profile sexual offences and families of murder victims. One signatory is a 14-year-old victim of a sexual assault in Epping allegedly committed by an illegal immigrant, in the same Essex town where asylum seekers were housed at the controversial Bell Hotel.
Fiona Goddard, a survivor of rape-gang grooming who has campaigned publicly about her experiences, has also signed the letter.

Eight relatives of Rhiannon Whyte, a hotel worker murdered by a Sudanese national, are also among those backing the demand.'

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/labour-blocks-release-of-migrant-crime-data/

FWIW,
I am in support of the data being released so long as it is not the raw data given the shit stirring and misinformation that has occurred when other countries have released raw data. It needs to be done in the form of a public enquiry where professional statisticians analyse the raw data to determine if there is any causal link between migration and violent crime and then report on the findings.

Secondly, the assumption that the data will show migrants from certain countries do pose a higher risk is a racist stereotype on the basis of national origin. Examples of this assumption abounds throughout the thread. It is no different from and just as racist as the 1980/90s when similar English minds were insisting that anyone Irish is far more likely to commit violent crimes because of the Troubles and we should have a national register and require all Irish in England, Wales and Scotland to be monitored by the police.

Thirdly, I am degree educated in social sciences and no it is not a fact that childhood exposure to war, violence or cultures without women’s rights lead to a higher risk of violent offending as an adult immigrant in the UK. While some of these traumatised adults do go on to perpetuate the cycle of violence, a larger majority go the opposite way to nonviolence. The ones that are comfortable with the violence and like women to be oppressed are happy to stay where they are. The ones that know it is wrong and want no part of it are the ones who risk their lives to leave a war torn or crime ridden country to migrate to a safe country and try and build a peaceful life for them and their children. So no it is not a proven fact that anyone from a war zone is going to be higher risk than anyone born and raised in the UK. It’s not even theory.

Why are tens of thousands of Israelis emigrating from Israel after tours in Gaza and West Bank where they have been ordered to shoot women and children, to run over people while still alive with bulldozers? It is because they can’t bear to be conscripted into a genocide again, it’s because they are rejecting violence. It is because all they want is to live in a safe country. It is no different for them than it is for the Afghans, Somalians, Eritreans, Ukrainians - everyone fleeing war doesn’t want to be part of mass violence they want peace.

So you are reading studies but omitting that these studies also show that the act of migration winnows out those who have become numbed to and don’t mind inflicting violence on others.

These same studies also show that a childhood of violence means the adult is more likely to be a victim of further violence than to commit violence themselves.

No one is denying a minority of men are violent and abusive, the problem is rhe assumption that men with a history of migration are more likely to be violent and abusive. It isn’t an evidenced fact at all. All that has been prematurely leaked is raw data that has not been properly analysed against controls to calculate accurate per capita comparisons. These provocateurs with agenda have done direct comparisons which are a textbook case on how not to compare two subsets to generate per capita figures.

This isn’t just my opinion, but has been pointed out by numerous experts in statistics.

Who was talking about political sensitivity from Labour?

@poetryandwine
I am fine with the publication of full data. The context must be an analysis by qualified senior statisticians and this means virtually every choice must be very carefully thought through. Not to hide anything but to make rigorous comparisons.
There is a reason people get PhDs in statistics. The evidence of the thread doesn’t suggest that OP and most of her supporters are terribly interested in statistical integrity.

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

It will be the data requested in the FOI. It won’t be redone. Because that’s the point of a system that allows the public to request information.

No more times. I'm not going to change my view to suit your prejudices. A crime is an aberration no matter who commits it.

Labour is trying to block the request after the ICO rejected their objections. It’s pretty much the issue being discussed.

'Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood has introduced new rules banning asylum seekers from being housed in new-build homes or near schools and nurseries.
The measures were brought in following a backlash over plans to house more than 80 asylum seekers in £250,000 new-build properties on a housing estate in Stoke Heath, Shropshire.

However, the Stoke Heath scheme had already been approved before the new guidance came into force, allowing the plans to proceed.The new-build estate in the rural Shropshire village has earmarked 21 homes for asylum-seeking families.

The crackdown on migrants being housed near schools and nurseries comes amid a sharp rise in sexual offence convictions involving foreign nationals.

Ministry of Justice figures released last year showed sexual offence convictions involving foreign nationals had increased by 62 per cent over four years.'

And what if the data didn't show that the most dangerous men are those you know and trust but men arriving without invitation from highly misogynistic countries?

What if the data showed these men are multiple times as dangerous to women and girls than our own men? Would that change anything for you?

I admire your tenacity @EasternStandard !

You're seriously bringing Jews into support your narrative @NullaEffugium . Unreal.

The student visa is a good example. The gov do act on data.

So why is it sexual and murderous crimes against women that result in a no we can’t do that.

IMO its borderline antisemitic...

She doesn't even know what she's talking about and yes, it is antisemitic.

Such glib remarks given the victims asking for this information.

Is that meant to be a joke because it isn't funny ?

You don't think that 650 primary aged children including many of other ethnicities than White British wouldn't be traumatised by a mob setting fire to a house purely on the basis of there being people of another ethnicity living there?

This.

Also who let the biggest number of men in from countries in which women are second class citizens? A clue: not this government

A clear consequence of Brexit and measures championed by Farage.

This problem was directly caused by the Tories and Farage and the Labour government are picking up the pieces.

Farage and his ilk want more racial division and hatred because he doesn't have a hope in hell of remaining prominent without it. Fundamentally they are racists. Do not feed the racist trolls. And before Mumsnet ban me, I mean the real life people like Farage and Tice who troll for a living. A very good living as well. They want us all to be uneducated peasants fighting amongst ourselves while society becomes even less equal and their plutocrat mates get even richer.

Do not feed them or the Russian agents who want to turn every issue into hyperbole and destabilise the nation.

I love reading things these people have spouted, tying themselves up in knots to try and explain away the realities. As always they bring up I've got a degree (or more) in this or that, I'm so bloody clever! You are so stoooopid. I'm so righteous I can barely breathe! Aw it's lovely that it is so predictable. it's comforting, in a way. Love it x

"These provocateurs with agenda"

What is the agenda? We normally get the explanation of "lining their pockets". Is that the agenda?

Hopefully the government will employ some statistical professionals to present it after proper analysis so that those unfamiliar with how to handle statistics aren’t drawing the wrong conclusions again. The contention of afghans 14x more likely than Germans has been proven false. Once you release raw data into the wild with people who don’t know anything beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division you are going to get completely incorrect conclusions that are sensationalised and repeated so often that others think it is a fact when it’s not. It’s bad statistics. It’s the equivalent of convincing someone who can’t add that 1+0 =10

I'd need to see your evidence that individual Afghan men are more likely to commit sexual crimes, including how you reached that conclusion based on available and credible statistics before I could begin to address your assertion that international law must be broken.

Then perhaps you could explain the context of the point you raise in your second paragraph.

These are fair points.

Professional statisticians would find it offensive to ‘explain away’ for the same reason that any well trained professional who takes pride in their work is loathe to violate the norms of their profession. Just - yuck. And you lose the respect of your peers.

You obviously need a good mix of such people to play opinions off each other and reach an unbiased consensus. Usually by doing their best to poke holes in each others’ arguments!

All parties have agendas but usually they do not involve frantically trying to distract from criminal and Parliamentary investigations. Similarly I would agree that Labour wishes to remain in power but dispute any idea that this makes them different from the Tories.

It's kind of irrelevant really
We have scores of men arriving in our country daily and government care more about sharing them equally,like a packet of sweets..
Look at the sexual crime figures..it's 99% men anyway
It's not women committing rape and sexual assault
It's all men
The figures could show they were all rapist's and government wouldn't do anything

Think about Rhiannon Whyte’s family for a bit. And the victims who are absolutely ok to use the FOI system as they are.

Or the 13 year old Italian girl in the post below.