Maintenance and extra's

[ConflictedDad]

Hi,

Not a mum, but believe in getting a broad perspective on pretty much everything (I do this with politics, health, work, etc lol).

I have a bit of a pickle, and would welcome your insight!

Divorced from ex-wife, now a little over 9 years ago. 3 kids:

Child1 has autism (undiagnosed), and receives Dla, he's going into year 11 next week.
2 other Children on spectrum too, but no benefits/diagnosis (Child2+3 are both 13)

I work full time, pay rent privately and look after my house. I have kids roughly 45% of the time - working out at around 170 nights a year, but also take on much of the admin load (appointments, forms, school stuff, etc)

I pay £350 maintenance a month (Private agreement, not CMS mandated), and also contribute 50/50 towards extra costs - trips, uniforms, hair cuts, glasses if they're over the voucher level, etc)

Ex receives Cb, UC and PIP. She'll also get the disabled child element of UC from my understanding.

I'm at a point where i'm unable to continue funding 50/50 of the 'extras' on top of the maintenance, rents have all gone up (£1,100 where I live now) as well as everything else, as we all know.

Would I be unreasonable to tell my ex that i'm unable to continue with this arrangement? We get along well, and are usually happy to help each other out if things come up (DIY stuff, or if i have to work until later etc) and I don't want to upset things, however I don't feel this is sustainable for me financially and believe that this should be covered comfortably by maintenance and child benefit?

Mods, if you feel this is better in a different category, please feel free to move it!

What's your ex's total month income compared to your net income?
I think it's reasonable for you to pay what the CMS calculator states given she qualifies for UC, gets CB,and PIP on top and these are tax free sums. Is she working pRy time as well..Are you able to ask her what she gets per month in total, especially now the CB 2 child cap has been lifted?

. I don't think she should expect more than that CMS amount if her income and your net income are roughly the same . If your income is significantly more then I think paying for extras is a nice thing to do if you can.

If her total household income is significantly more than your net income, then just pay her the CMS calculator sum for the 55:45 split of caring responsibilities. That sum is based on the assumption that the parent with the majority of care will be providing shoes and clothing and scholl trips etc. her benefits are for her other expenditure

You can still treat the children to extras when they stay with you, so they won't be missing out

If the mum gets PIP that means she is disabled or has a health condition which has a serious impact on her life.

That will make it much harder for her to work and to look after the children.

The conversation needs to not be about money and paying extras but actually can she cope, and maybe you should do more practical

£36,000 is quite a low salary. Why don’t you up your skills and try to get a higher paying job?

I would just use the calculator to work out how much you should pay. I have my children 95% of the time. We worked maintenance out using the calculator. He does not contribute to any other additional costs. Makes it easier I guess, as I know where I stand.

Oh I love this suggestion on mumsnet like everyone is capable of the same intelligence.

Hi.

her household income (benefits) is significantly higher than my income. Though there are 2 adults there.

I doubt she’s able to work part time.

Hi.

unfortunately it is about money, and as I do the vast majority of the other “practical” things, I cannot do more of them

£36k isn’t a low salary lol.

anyway, where on earth am I supposed to find the money to get further training when this post is about me not having enough money for the extras?

what a weird comment.

Autistic child.

I feel like you deliberately missed out the vital detail that she is in fact disabled so much so she has a carer and is unable to work and instead attempted to paint her as a lazy layabout who should get a job. She can’t do anything to improve her income for obvious reasons. You could improve yours, if not to fund the “extras” then to afford trips out with your DC. 36k is quite low nowadays, not breadline but it’s below average.

He didnt miss it out and she will have a fairly decent imcome.

Hi,

I appreciate your point of view, but just to be clear, it was other posters who asked the question of her working or not. I did not include it as it's not relevant to the question. I know she receives enough in benefits to live comfortably and after that, it's none of my business.

In my area, £36k is £6k above the median, it's certainly a decent wage here and I do not have either the time or money currently to invest in further training

Well, she's looking after 3 autistic children, one of which must have very significant care needs if they receive DLA.

I'd guess if we were to get her side, she took a massive financial hit in order to provide a bigger share of the care needed by the disabled children, allowing the OP's work and earning potential to be undisputed. Standard CMS does not take into account the additional costs of raising disabled children, both in terms of lost earnings and direct costs of the disability (fidgets, therapy not providedby NHS, 1:1 activities other kids could do group, broken items, restricted diet).

Hi.

thanks, I do feel like I need to point out here that we are looking after 3 autistic children. Not just her.

and no, due to her disabilities she’s not taking a financial hit to provide care, and it’s very arguably if she does in fact provide a “bigger share of the care” needed.

A child receiving DLA must have significant care needs throughout the day (ie. Cannot be left alone). As they are 15 (? year 11), there's not going to be child care, and a PA or paid carer probibly costs more the either of you could earn. So if she didn't have them 10% more then you, would you be able to work full time? If not, then she is facilitating your earning.

Besides from that, as the base CMS amount has already had a deduction made for the nights you have them, it is assumed that you provide for them directly during this time. This includes any uniform, coats, shoes or glasses they where while with you. If items are been used at both houses, then both parents should pay. The alternative would be you buying items specifically for their time with you, which would be even more expensive.

Then in that case , I'd run the CMS calculator in your income and % share and number of children, and pay the amount the calculator states is the correct amount.

I don't think it's fair that you are effectively subsidising her partner and standard of living, to the the significant detriment of yours, and your ability to treat your children when they stay with you. I presume she has declared to benefits office that she has a live in partner ?

Her income of £42,000 a year is equivalent of £55k earned income after tax, assuming she doesn't have student loan to pay back out of any potential earning over the threshold

I think OP has been much more considerate than many ex's in his situation. He is not wealthy. His financial responsibility is for a contribution.towards his children when in her care, which is just over half the time. The rest of the time he looks after the children. State benefits take her disabilities into account.

I think his salary is too low to be paying more than the CMS figure.

Do you pay into a pension? CMS calculates the maintenance on taxable pay (so after pension deductions) not on gross salary.

Anyway, the system is flawed and is based purely on the paying parent’s income and doesn’t take into account the receiving parent’s income. Also it is a myth that having 50/50 custody means zero maintenance. The reason being they will try and balance it if paying parent’s income is significantly higher so there is less discrepancy with the standard of living the children have in each home. (Might not be relevant to your situation but don’t assume it’s 0 if you upped the custody time). Would make no difference if receiving parent is a millionaire though, make it make sense!!!

Like I said, a flawed system.

People saying CMS covers the bare minimum, well that completely depends on the maintenance amount doesn’t it. Higher earners pay more (unless they hide their income), even though the basic costs of raising a child are similar.

Maintenance is supposed to cover housing, clothing, food and basic needs. So the CMS are making you pay towards that for the 55% she has them.

The best answer is to have an honest conversation with the ex about your situation and try and keep things amicable. Technically you are not obliged to pay half of everything on top of the maintenance, if it’s putting you in financial difficulty then it will have to stop, or there has to be some compromise on those extras. Personally I would rather compromise on my own spending before affecting the children (which includes my DSS).

We pay more than £350 maintenance for my DSS and we pay half of all costs for trips etc. We have had to tighten our belts to allow for this, but also sometimes it has to be a no. For example school were offering 2 different trips abroad both costing hundreds, we said we could only contribute half to one of them. Our other two children also have to compromise on the activities they do because of costs. It’s life.

55 % of the time she is
The other 45% of the time the op is.

Shift work maybe ?

My work allow me to take flexi time, so I can move things around to fit these in. This wasn't a standard part of my contract and I had to fight very hard to get the company to allow it. As a result, I'm well aware of the fortunate position i'm in in that way

I do, but when I worked out the CMS calculation I didn't account for that.

Agree that it is flawed, though I also agree that it's flawed for some very valid reasons

I note that you've mentioned "we" a few times, so I presume you're in a dual income household. I'm not, if I was, this wouldn't even be in question, as I'd be more than happy to provide 50/50 on extra's even if it was purely for the reason of keeping things amicable. As i'm not, it makes that much more difficult.

Yes, it’s for my husband’s child from a previous relationship. My earnings don’t come into the calculation, though I appreciate it makes it easier to contribute to half the extras.

Have a look at your P60 from April and it gives you your taxable income amount. Go off that instead of your gross salary and see what difference it makes.

She only has the children 55% of the time. Dad has them 45% of the time and he’s still working full time.