She should just let me be ill in peace

[mabelladel]

I'm 32 weeks pregnant and have been really unwell this week. I had tonsillitis, had barely slept for several nights and had been prescribed pain relief and medication to help me sleep. I'd also just had a pretty scary conversation with my consultant about my blood pressure and what might need to happen if it didn't come down, so I was extremely anxious and had been specifically advised to rest.

I powered through it as I was in the middle of recruiting to my team so fulfilled all the interviews and assessments and appointed the candidate. Then I mailed my manager to say I'd seen the doctor, was self-certifying and needed to rest.

She called me a quite a few times over the next few days and I've missed them because I was asleep. Some didn't answer because I was still in bed, exhausted, medicated and had virtually no voice. I'd already explained I was ill and how long I expected to be off.

I've just logged on after basically spending three days in bed and have received a pretty terse email saying I haven't followed sickness procedure because the policy says I should speak to my manager by phone.

I completely accept there is a policy, but AIBU to think some common sense/discretion should apply? If someone has told you they've seen a doctor, they're unwell and have been advised to rest, surely they don't have to prove they're physically incapable of answering a telephone before they're allowed to actually be sick?

I'm angry about it because this isn't the first difficult interaction I've had with my manager and I've always felt watched and scrutinised unduly. During the heatwave, I'd adjusted my hours to start at 7 and work til 3.30 as we don't have core hours. She started monitoring my teams status and claiming I wasn't working. It feels very officious.

Would you respond and explain the circumstances, or just leave it?

There is a policy.

You don't like it.

Your manager might not either.

But if your contracts is covered by a policy you have to adhere to it.

The sickness policy is the policy, you need to follow it the same as everyone else. I haven’t worked anywhere that you didn’t need to phone in every morning unless you were signed off sick.

Did you discuss changing your hours with your manager before doing them?

I get that but presumably discretion can be applied, for eg at the extreme, what if someone was in an RTA and not conscious or in a psychotic episode. So who makes the decision on whether a call is appropriate? My gripe is that most managers across our team accept an email / teams recognising that a chat isn't always helpful or conducive to wellbeing.

If the policy is to phone, I would have phoned.

Did your management agree with the changed hours over the summer?

You are being unreasonable about this OP. You werent in a car accident or having a psychotic episode. If I did this Id be disciplined.you could have managed a very short conversation. You arent mute.

You had tonsillitis though, you weren’t unconscious from an RTA. If you could talk to your consultant, you could have had a brief conversation with your manager. Some workplaces are all about playing the game. It is annoying but if that’s their policy, then you need to follow it.

I hope you’re feeling better soon. I had my tonsils out as an adult because I kept having tonsillitis. 💐

Unfortunately you're in the wrong. If. The policy says phone and you're physically able to phone, then you phone.

That’s just not comparable to tonsillitis though, even in pregnancy. Follow the policy and then shel leave you alone

Being asleep when she called - ok
Not being in contact at all for 3 days when you know the policy - not ok!

Just call once a day to confirm you are still ill

Ours is that you have to ring in daily. They’re sensible though, I get tonsillitis and am totally unable to speak so I ring in silently, my manager knows it’s me and then says “ok just text it’s fine”

You can't win with people like that. Unfortunately at 32 weeks you can't start maternity leave until the baby arrives. Find a new job during the maternity leave.

She can of course start maternity leave before the baby arrives, not sure what you meant there

Sounds very jobsworthy - 32 weeks pregnant & with tonsillitis, I could imagine the last thing you need is to start making phone calls.
You also sound pretty diligent, making sure your team is recruited before going off sick. Your manager is being a dick, but probably the best way to deal with it is to apologise and explain it was extremely painful to speak on the phone, hence the email, and thank her for her understanding.

I am assuming the consultant is concerned about pre-eclampsia if you have very high blood pressure? I would go and see the GP and get signed off. Don't take any chances.

As for your manager, just speak to them, apologise and say they you were projectile vomiting, dizzy and couldn't get out of bed and you logged on as soon as you were physically able to but you think you may have to be signed off.

Good luck - take no chances, be safe.

I agree it's shit having to call in when you're unwell. It's the last thing you want to do. But unfortunately it seems to be the policy pretty much everywhere, certainly everywhere I've worked, so you just have to comply.

That's quite petty of her to insist on a phone call rather than an email. What has she said will be the consequence of not following the policy to the letter? Maybe contact HR to ask? Let them know you were exhausted, had a very sore throat and assumed that contact via email would be enough surely they will agree? I worked somewhere where it had a to be a phone call, it was ridiculous, it's not like you can tell if someone is faking over the phone.

I’d just apologise and get on with your last few weeks. Sickness is rife in my DH workplace were the policy is very relaxed, funnily enough in my workplace were the policy is clear and strict the incidence is far less. A text/email would not be tolerated for tonsillitis.

Why can’t she?

You weren’t in any of those situations though were you, you had tonsillitis which doesn’t prevent most people from calling in sick.

But she can be signed off sick until maternity leave kicks in.

While I agree with PP, policy is a policy but she handled it all wrong too. Why did she keep ringing? I would have thought it goes against policy to ring an employee on sick leave. She can't ignore one policy while trying to enforce another. She could have messaged saying I'm really sorry for disturbing you when you are ill, but our policy says you need to phone today and I don't want you to get into trouble. Pls phone ASAP. I also agree it's a silly policy when someone has confirmed they need a set amount of days off and already seen a doctor but that's a matter for discussion with HR another time.

I know the RTA example was facetious. My point is really where the line is and who adjudicates whether somebody is well enough to have a work conversation.

A colleague recently had appendicitis and emailed to say she was taking the week off. That was accepted. She was fully conscious and presumably physically capable of using a phone, so clearly some discretion can be applied.

In my case I'd barely slept for several nights, was incredibly anxious following the conversation about my blood pressure, had taken sleeping medication and was drowsy and in and out of sleep, as well as having virtually no voice.

I could technically have answered a telephone, yes. But "physically capable of answering a phone" seems a very odd test for whether somebody is well enough to engage with work. I'd told her by email the doctor said I need to rest and disengage. Are we not adult enough to be trusted?

And realistically, what useful information was going to come from that conversation? I'd already reported the absence, explained why I was off and how long I expected to be off. I certainly wasn't going to get out of bed, turn the laptop on and start producing handover emails because I wasn't fit for work.

That's really my issue. Not that policies shouldn't exist, but if discretion clearly exists, where is the line and who decides when somebody is sufficiently ill to be left to recover?

I know the RTA example was facetious. My point is really where the line is and who adjudicates whether somebody is well enough to have a work conversation.

A colleague recently had appendicitis and emailed to say she was taking the week off. That was accepted. She was fully conscious and presumably physically capable of using a phone, so clearly some discretion can be applied.

In my case I'd barely slept for several nights, was incredibly anxious following the conversation about my blood pressure, had taken sleeping medication and was drowsy and in and out of sleep, as well as having virtually no voice.

I could technically have answered a telephone, yes. But "physically capable of answering a phone" seems a very odd test for whether somebody is well enough to engage with work. I'd told her by email the doctor said I need to rest and disengage. Are we not adult enough to be trusted?

And realistically, what useful information was going to come from that conversation? I'd already reported the absence, explained why I was off and how long I expected to be off. I certainly wasn't going to get out of bed, turn the laptop on and start producing handover emails because I wasn't fit for work.

That's really my issue. Not that policies shouldn't exist, but if discretion clearly exists, where is the line and who decides when somebody is sufficiently ill to be left to recover?

As a manager I’d probably have used discretion and compromised with just a text message / teams chat from you rather than insisting on a phone call every day. Although this would depend on the individual involved and their track record with general conduct, sick leave etc and any previous issues with communication when off sick / going AWOL.

Ultimately, your employer (and by proxy your line manager) has a duty of care to you and the policy requirement for you to stay in communication with them is there for a number of reasons:

• so they can be aware of the latest status of your health,
• be kept up to date with any changes to that status (good or bad) particularly with a view to your expected return to work date
• so they can have early sight of any need for any adjustments they may need to make either short term as part of your return to work or longer term, ongoing support for you in your role
• and practically so they can stay on top of any work related, logistical matters that need to be managed whilst you’re off, e.g. any urgent or time sensitive tasks needing reallocation to another colleague

The policy is there for a reason and even if you don’t agree with it, you should comply with it.

That said, if you genuinely think this manager may have an agenda against you, make sure you keep records of any interactions to protect yourself. Particularly, for all conversations by phone/Teams or in person, especially ones where the subject matter could be/become contentious, make sure you follow up the discussion with an email to her capturing what was discussed and requesting she advise of any parts of your summary she disagrees with. This way you have a contemporaneous account of what happened and her agreement in writing that it’s a factual and accurate account- means she can’t then try to rewrite history down the line if she starts playing funny buggers.

Hope you’re feeling better now @mabelladel

I can understand your point, but it’s at the managers discretion not yours. And obviously appendicitis is easier to understand for a week long Absance without further detail than tonsillitis, anxiety, high blood pressure etc, the manager maybe thought it warranted a quick phone call, as is her choice. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and follow the policy.