AIBU to feel contextual offers are unfair after my son's results?

[ThatQuickLilacOrca]

Results Day last Thursday and son is beyond devastated. This experience has made us realise that there’s so much discrimination on children who have attended private school. We are not wealthy at all, DHs parents have helped us pay for our three children’s education. DH and I have normal jobs I work in the civil service and DH works in policy side of things for network rail.

Anyway I am saying this because of contextual offers why can’t everyone just get the same offer based on merit. Our son had an oxford offer he missed that he got AAA instead of his offer which was A A A now he cannot go to his dream university he was rejected as he missed the offer. He is planning to resit further maths again in hopes of getting an A and we will support him with that it’s just quite sad but he’ll get over it he’ll apply again for next year the school has been ever so supportive.

He overachieved on his offer yet there’s kids getting in with less grades than him just because of the schools they go to. We did initially think for him to go to grammar school for sixth form as we have friends who’s children left independently school for sixth form for grammar schools to get lower offers for Oxbridge and one of them messaged me saying “I told you so” as her son got into Oxford for the exact same course he was just given a lower offer. I am so annoyed

I guess this is a lesson for my son he has realised the world isn’t fair and it’s quite a motivator for him. He’s a hardworking boy, he has spent some is his summer in South America teaching maths, he went to a maths competition in America this summer too, this is a very dedicated boy we have spoken to the university but they wrong budge they’re willing for him to resit and reapply next year.

I think contextual offers should only really be for young carers, children who have been in foster care, children with disabilities etc not just because of your address and the school you go to that is very unfair. Most parents at Indys are catching onto this lots are sending their children to grammar schools/state schools so they get lower offers. It’s an awful system that we have in this country. I’m so hurt for him but I know this will motivate him. He’s our eldest and we were looking forward to dropping him off at Oxford not Durham, he out Durham as his insurance he never wanted to go there! They did accept him but what’s the point, he was so upset when he logged into UCAS to see that and some is my friends advice was that he should just go to Durham why should he go to a university he doesn’t want to to. He put them as insurance because it’s the smart thing to do but deep down he always thought he’d get into Oxford. He still went out and celebrated his friends but he’ll be back to school in September, he’s looking forward to visiting his friends that are going to university and he’s recently got a part time job at an art gallery and he’s loving it so at least he’s got an extra year to enjoy that.

Sorry for the rant. Any parent just wants their son to be happy he’ll get over it in a couple of weeks as his application needs to be in by Oct so we will have to just see how this round goes he’s willing to give it one more shot.

I’m really sorry for what has happened and I can’t imagine I’d feel furious and frustrated in your place. But this really isn’t the place to vent. The chances of getting in after a missed offer/resit are really not good. Also the privileges attendant on Oxbridge degree really aren’t what they used to be: jobs are hard to come by for everyone now. You’d be doing him a huge favour to encourage him to give Durham a try and get on with his life. He will still do very well. Look at Oxford for grad school if he does very well in his undergrad.

The idea of Oxbridge being a golden ticket is so exaggerated for the reasons you describe.

Oxbridge graduates are over-represented in "top" professions but they're also much more likely to be from backgrounds that give them an advantage anyway.

If you're the child of a partner in a law firm your success in gaining a training contract might not be wholly down to the wonders of the Oxbridge education.

It sounds like your son has had every advantage in life and will be absolutely fine.

@ThatQuickLilacOrca how did they 'game the system' ? Because just going to a state rather than private school will make zero difference (unless it's a really tough one and not sure that would be an acceptable group of friends for dear Tarquin).

The majority of state students need the same grades as private ones. V v uneducated to think otherwise.

Oxbridge is, and has been for a v long time, 70% state school educated 🤷‍♀️

I think this country likes to discriminate against children whose parents just want the best of the best for their children.

My daughter received contextual offers - I'm a single parent (having left and abusive marriage), and was a full time carer for elderly parents when she applied to uni. Before and after I've worked in the public sector.

None of that stopped me wanting the best for my daughter funnily enough. She also didn't get into her first choice of uni, and has still had to work her backside off for the last three years.

She's been able to obtain scholarships and other support and I'm just incredibly grateful she's had the opportunities she's had, and proud of her plans to give back by going into a career as a human rights barrister.

It's disappointing for anyone to not get their first choice of uni, but frankly you need to be a bit more appreciative of your privilege (regardless of where it originated) and get over yourself.

Yes I'd definitely recommend Edinburgh. He'll fit right in, as it is full of Oxbridge rejectees slumming it and making it very clear to the other students, (especially if they're locals) that they'd just missed out and deserved SO much better than this) .

How do I know? Because my daughter was there a few years back. However rather than it being her "I suppose it'll do" choice, she worked so bloody hard at her shitty Edinburgh comprehensive to get there (remember no grammar school options in Scotland).

For someone who claims not to be entitled, your entitlement oozes out of everything you've said. I really hope that your son's attitude is better than yours or he will be THAT student lording it over the plebs at his very much 2nd choice.

I feel very strongly that contextual offers are fair and should continue. When one of my adopted sons suddenly announced he wanted to apply for university, I wasn't convinced this would be possible. (For background, he and his brother had a traumatic early life and had been fostered for years before being adopted. They had attended the poorest performing local comp and had shown no interest in pursuing qualifications). On researching different degrees and universities, we discovered that my son would be eligible for a contextual offer to pursue his chosen course. Even so, to get enough UCAS points, he still had to do an extra online Access to Higher Education diploma, completely self-taught. Without the benefit of a contextual offer my son would not have been able to go to university, get his degree and now be pursuing his chosen career.

I can't express how proud I am of what both of sons have achieved in life, despite all the hurdles they have had to overcome. In recognition of that, it seems entirely reasonable to me that contextual officers should continue as one small recognition that opportunities for children are in no way equal.

Just wait until his year group graduates and quickly realize the contacts made at private school do much more for a career than the degree certificates they've all ended up with, oxbridge or not.

TLDR: he's still going to be at a massive advantage.

Reapply! 100%! He'll regret it if he doesn't. I went to Oxford, loads of people I know got in second time round. Got to be persistent. Oxbridge loves determination. And if you pick a new college, I doubt they'll realise it was a reapplication.

And - yes - it IS worth it - the tutorial system alone is extraordinary, and they have a lot more resource to spend on students. People who don't understand its value just haven't been there. (I know you understand this, more talking to the others on the thread here!). For reference, I did 2 essays a week for my subject, with a 2-to-1 tutorial on each (plus lectures). Equiv course at Bristol was 2 each term. Like night and day!

Re preference for state applicants, in my experience this was very college dependant. Tutors care to varying extents. When I turned up, my tutors hadn't a clue where anyone had been to school. Doubt they even knew by the end! Make sure you choose a college like that :)

FYI they give mad offers to everyone - I had done maths and music A levels in year 11 (at a state school, I then went back to private for sixth form FWIW) and was asked to achieve four new A levels at top grades - they wouldn't consider my early ones. I ended up with 6. Load of people I know there had 6 actually...

That said, clearly there are real errors with how they handle accessibility: the scandal with the George Abaraonye was pretty bleak. I hope they've learned from it.

Re state vs private privilege (again talking to thread rather than ThatQuickLilacOrca here) worth remembering that many Oxf private school applicants are scholars at their expensive school and have reduced fees / wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford the private school. Some private schools are wildly selective - the children have almost done Oxbridge selection at 11 to enter in the first place. It makes total sense that there would be disproportionate private school intake given how selective some are. Having gone to both state and private (latter as a scholar), I would say my biggest advantage in life was cultural inheritance - my parents read me lots of books - not cash.

Everyone feels hard done by, but they make the rules. I'm sure he'll be an even better applicant second time round.

Good luck!

I don’t think we use “TLDR” for a single sentence … 🤣

It’s not just contacts though is it it’s being personable /likeable /having charm and sadly how you look. Life can be very unfair and these kids told having strings of As is the absolute passport to success will get a nasty shock.

If he's 18 and only now finding life is unfair he is very privileged.

This has to be one of the most obnoxious posts I've ever read on here.

I still take credit for my friend going to Cambridge, because she scoffed at the idea of going when she was fifteen, and I said that of course we were Oxbridge material.

(She was the first in her family to go, my family have been attending Oxbridge since there was an Oxbridge to attend - I'm more pleased that she went then I did!)

I’m baffled that you think the admissions officers only look at the name of the sixth form and ignore the secondary school. You think pupils can attend a private school then switch to a state 6th form to trick Oxbridge admissions officers? All prior secondary / 6th form education is on the admissions form so it’s clear who had any sort of private secondary education. Aren’t parental occupations also asked for?

I thought universities like Oxbridge looked at where GCSEs were taken, so moving to a state sixth form from private wouldn’t have any effect? But then I know Tiffin Boys had approx 56 Oxbridge offers last year - approx 5 times higher than that of the super selective private schools near it. So makes me wonder!

Either way the OP’s son wasn’t discriminated against - especially as he received an offer in the first place!

I think this country likes to discriminate against children whose parents just want the best of the best for their children.

The most ridiculous thing I've read on MN about education. Just effing ridiculous, and attitudes like this make me very angry.

I teach in an RG university. I see everyday the difference between students whose parents paid for their education, who think that an Oxbridge place is their due, and those students for whom getting to the position of even applying for university is a triumph.

The Sutton Trust research suggests that a paid-for education adds at least one grade to an A Level in comparison with a young person at a bog standard comprehensive. They show how educational advantage maps on to socio-economic advantage.

@ThatQuickLilacOrca, you and your DS might reflect on the advantages he's had, not knock our fairly mild attempts to re-balance a very unfair social class hierarchy. Your post is pretty disgusting actually, entitled, blinkered, and just stupid.

My son goes to a school where the average grade at A level is a C minus. To get AAA at that school, with the absent teachers and low ambitions, you'd be a near genius. But you don't have to be that bright to get AAA at Hampton Boys or Harrow, you've been fed the whole thing. By giving contextual offers (by which you mean slightly lower offers to state school pupils or being more flexible when they miss their grades) Oxbridge is not just trying to even up the playing field for the pupils - no, they are trying to get the best, most passionate, students. They want the people who against the odds got AAA through raw intelligence, passion for the subject and hard work. That's what AAA says about someone from a poor school. AAA from someone at a private school may just mean that their teachers spoonfed them and drilled them until you'd have to be a fairly poor pupils to not hey an A. Covid teacher predicted grades showed us clearly that teachers carry private school pupils.

Also, Durham is a really excellent Uni. Your DS would probably have a great time there and come out with a highly thought of degree. It's a success! Try and encourage him to think positively.

He should just go to Durham. Does he really want to go back to school when he doesn't need to?

And a job in an art gallery says it all really.

(I was an Oxbridge reject and went to my second choice university - I got over it and turned out ok)

I teach in one of the schools where lots of students get the "unfair" contextual offers that you mention.

This year alone some examples of students who were eligible:

1. Parent died - 6 children living in a 2 bedroom flat, mum in uni PT to try and gain qualifications as well as working two jobs. This student was effectively being a parent to 5 younger siblings on top of working and studying. Got 4 A stars
2. Child who lives in flat - 4 of them in a studio. No where to sit and work, no access to a Laptop without us supporting them. Comes into school at 7:30 each morning (after a morning shift at the local supermarket). 2 A stars and an A
3. Student who lives in tower block and heard one of their friends be killed whilst at sixth form. Single parent family, uses the school food bank almost weekly. Has to deal with all adult things as parent does not speak English. 3 A stars.

You mention how hard working your Son is going to all of these different countries this summer- many of the children that are getting the contextual offers aren't able to even contemplate the opportunities that your Son has had this summer, let alone the extra things that come with being in a private school.

So no, it is not unfair at all. The children getting these offers are having to deal with SO much more. They don't have access to half of the things that private schools have.

Yup, bad news. They look at where the GSCEs were taken. Obviously.

It’s not some kind of cheeky cheat code… posh schools all the way to 16 then 2 years for A levels with the hoi polloi and everyone’s fooled. 🤣

I'm sure lots of kids have alcoholic parents I mean it's not something that is class bound. Is there even a place you can record that when applying?

I don't think, in fact I know it's not always incredibly challenging circumstances in life but it is what it is.

Depending on what area you want to work in people can be put off by an Oxbridge degree, there are some that perceive the average Oxbridge graduate to be highly intelligent but completely lacking in savoir-faire- an essential trait to be a success in a variety of jobs!

Oh for heaven's sake. Decades ago, applying for Oxbridge without the advantage of sophisticated private school mentoring, I made sure my second choice university also had a really good BA programme in my beloved subject and was a place that had many virtues in its own right (including a lovely location). You think your son has learned a lesson about unfairness; I think he's learned (possibly) a lesson about not being overconfident AND thoughtless.