AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

Its extremely classist though isnt it. Im looking at going to london in a few weeks, standard class is £74- first class is £230 extra. Ridiculous price. And as for not sharing a carriage with people who haven't paid, I cant understand the attitude.

Surely any decent person, at seeing 20+ seats around them free and carriages full to the rafters, would not begrudge people seating in the empty bloody carriage? I mean, come on. Its the same attitude as first / third class on the titanic isnt it.

Also I've sat in first class once in similar circumstances. It was the Manchester train from london - all trains were getting cancelled, hot and packed in other carriages. I actually got off and thought sod this, then got back on. On the busier trains, especially peak times, conductors dont generally check tickets. Got on, thought if I cant sit there will plead ignorance and move. As it turned out, the seats were declassified so perk for me.

Admit its annoying for those who've paid first class when they could have just not. But in my experience when first class is declassified, you can get a refund on the first class bit of your ticket.

I genuinely cant believe that there are people who would enjoy sitting in an empty carriage and not think about the rest of the people stood on packed sections for hours. Who would rather they have their precious plenty of space (which i dont get as someone sat across the aisle from you hardly makes your own seat bigger or leg room more) thsn extend a bit of human kindness.

Madness. I will continue chancing my luck in future if I need to. Im not standing on a train for 3hours for absolutely no reason.

Anyone LOL - people not as good as you? Why do you care if other people get a seat, would you honestly want the family in this scenario to have to stand rather through no fault of their own planning because you don't want the commoners in first class? Maybe if they declassify they could pay the rightful first class people back for the difference in fair and I suppose compensation for having to seat near 'anyone'

It makes absolutely no sense. All those seats empty.giving no revenue. Can’t imagine the cost of pulling around an empty train carriage.People standing that paid for a seat. People paying a premium for an antimacassar believing they are paying for solitude.
Anyone that would rather see people standing in a hot cramped carriage than joining them in first class is a selfish twat.

You can generally pay on the train to upgrade to first class, so presumably anyone on the train had this option and for whatever reason didnt choose to.

People (not me btw) pay extra for first class for all the reasons you mention so yabu - if id paid and that happened i would ask for a refund. Train travel is a nightmare atm though so many issues and I do emphasise with you there, but dont agree this is the solution

Isnt it simply case of you asking to pay for a first class ticket then. Walk towards empty carriage. Told its first class only. How much extra is a ticket. Pay the extra and there you go.

Or do you want the extra benefits without paying for them. Is that what this is about.

I have done that. They let me stay without paying. Maybe they wouldn't have if I had just sat in first class without asking.

The problem is usually due to cancelled trains rather than trains not being large enough. Trains get canceled for all sorts of reasons.

People who have had there train cancelled and booked a seat, they then lose that seat for the next train. That is not their fault. If there's no seats for the next train then they should get a free upgrade to first class if there are seats still available.. they are not asking for anything thing extra they just want the seat the rightfully booked for the cancelled train. If that's not available in the standard carriage then I think they should be upgraded the first class to ease the crowding in the rest of the train. It's not their fault the train was cancelled.

You got seats… I’m not seeing the issue.

I have additional needs and don’t cope well in standard so I always book well in advance when it’s cheaper and get first class. I find the extra cost is easily worth it with the free food and drinks anyway.

if you still need additional support then book assistance. There are systems in place, use them.

And who decides on which passengers get a free upgrade? People can already get a refund if their train is very late.

The people who booked a seat.

First class is quieter, that's part of the appeal. Of course it shouldn't be randomly opened up and if they did people would stop booking it.

That could be nearly everyone. Also if a train is canceled those in first class are in the same position.

Exactly. You were respectful of the extra cost to sit there and gave them the opportunity to decide. Happy days you were given it for free.

Except the railways receive substantial subsidies from the Government which is obviously paid for by all tax payers why should I subsidise first class travel and stand when I have no seat?

Yes but taxpayers are subsidising those first class seats.

Given the price of some first class seats that's not necessarily true.

Taxpayer-funded subsidies support the entire rail network, including infrastructure, staffing, and rolling stock, which benefits all those using the trains, taxpayers indirectly subsidising first-class travel which is shocking if you think about it as fares even at first class prices do not cover the true overall running costs.

It absolutely is true and a fact- see my last post.

Not really the point. The people have still paid extra for it, and others could also pay to upgrade if they wanted to, or they could stand, or they could wait for another train or they could find an alternative route home. We all have choices to make in those circumstances.

Given that there is unlikely to be enough seats in first class for everyone without a seat and that people have paid extra to sit in first class already I still dont think thats the answer. Just my opinion, as a regular train and mostly standard class traveller.

It's exactly it they want the first class service but they don't want to pay for it 🙂

But as the railways are heavily subsidised by the government and indirectly, the Taxpayer, they are already paying for those in the first class carriage, it's simply not the case that a first class ticket covers that expense. It it is not a commercial operation like airlines are for example, you would then have a point but many in standard class will be subsidising those in first class carriages which is unacceptable and actually why the Government should force the scrapping of first class.

It's a very good point and is wholly relevant as those in first class are not covering the full price of their seat and shouldn't expect exceptions to not be made when they are being subsidised by others on the train. They have no absolute right over that carriage or indeed exclusivity.

When first class fares can be up to 3 times the standard class fare, no, the standard class fare payers aren't subsidising first class at all!

They do. There are far more standard tickets sold so they make far more money than first class. Of course standard tickets are subsidising first class.