AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

You can pay for first class upgrades on the train, just ask the conductor, it's usually not too expensive

Oh yes, long coach journeys are a nightmare. I don’t care how much cheaper they are I find them unbearable.

I'm not sure how accessible a train toilet is for anyone who is disabled. I certainly can't use them on a moving train. Probably not easy to change a nappy either.

I know it sucks but they won’t open the first class up. I am by no means rich but save up for first class on the once a year I go by train somewhere. I’m disabled and having the extra room, as well as not having to carry food/drink makes a huge difference to me when travelling with my daughter. I also find it easier to get to the loo with the added space. I’d be annoyed if it was opened up as I’ve paid a small fortune.

Can they not add another carriage/coach and/or another service and stop privatisation of public transport. Just build things better in the first place..

you are being unreasonable, I travelled today my train was cancelled too , people were kicking off at the station and it was embarrassing, autistic or not you nor your child should be entitled to first class if you havnt payed , why didn’t you ask to upgrade ? My son is physically disabled and is on the spectrum so I plan ahead and book what’s relevant to his condition

But it’s exactly what you are saying really isn’t it ?

Why should people who have paid a lot more have to share it though?

What a horrible attitude. Why should people who have booked and paid for a ticket and reserved a seat have to stand, in overcrowded conditions, in a heatwave no less, just because they have less money than you.

Certainly ask for a refund on the difference on the difference in price if you want, but insisting that others stay in vastly more uncomfortable conditions rather than be able to sit down on an empty seat just because you've paid more! That's a disgustingly selfish attitude.

If everyone can fit in the available carriages there is no need I guess? Getting suitcases on and off I am guessing carriage class won’t make a difference. My DC is registered autistic and I know how awful public transport is for some, in fact I salute you as we can’t get ours on public transport so many places are out of reach for us. At a push I’d have to pay for 1st class and they would be fine if 1st class carriage was mostly empty and quiet. They’d have a huge issue if the first class was full (!) as even the slightest noise / shuffle is an issue. So we just have to drive everywhere, or sadly not go which is often the default option for us a lot.

We have to pay over the odds all the time for a lot of things or, not go. I do feel for you and if your DC can cope with public transport keep going (or opt for 1st class).

You have every right to travel on the train with a suitcase, if the other poster didagrees they can use a coach.

When you are on a train for 2+ hours you find a way. I've changed many nappies on a moving train and I've used the accessible toilet. It's not that hard

When I was on the deadly commute from Euston to Coventry I have, more than once, led a group of overcrowded, stressed and tired passengers to sit in first class. This makes no difference to those who bought a first class ticket. The seat sizes remain the same and the 'lower class' don't get the free sandwich 😁 Booking first class only guarantees you YOUR first class seat and perks, not having a near empty carriage! What entitled CF behaviour to expect otherwise!

It's hard for me although I am disabled rather than needing to change nappies.

It does make a difference if it means people who paid for a first class ticket can't get a seat! You can't always reserve although fine if disabled and get on at Euston.

So would you expect the same on a plane? First class if economy is a bit shitty?

A plane is completely different. There are never more people than seats on a plane.

They wouldn't be in there if it was ABIT shitty, they would only be in first class if it's overcrowded else where.

First class can be better for some disabilities because of the seating and not all standard has a trolley service so access also to refreshments on long journeys can be difficult.

In the case of you and your son or someone without a seat with a babe in arms as described, the train manager should try to seat them. This could include facilitating someone more able to stand to offer their seat in standard (if this hasn’t naturally happened).

I appreciate in this case it was nearly empty, but sometimes it is full and don’t think in general they should open up the whole of first class as then first class ticket holders might not be able to get seats.

OP - if you ever find yourself in this situation again and can't get a seat, it's worth speaking to the train staff. Over the last decade I've asked for help on numerous trips where this has happened, and explained that we reserved seats because DD is disabled and needs to sit for the journey. They usually give us a seat in first class at no extra cost.

I know some people will probably disagree with staff doing this, but I don't ask for or expect to be placed in first class, and we haven't always been put there. I just explain DD needs a seat due to disability and go wherever train staff decide is appropriate.

You do know that planes don't take standing passengers at all, don't you? Not at all the same thing.

this will likely turn into a class/money debate but a lot of people book first class for this exact reason - if they have disabilities or young children and just don’t want to have to deal with the sh*tshow that is British trains or not getting a seat! So no I don’t think they should open it up to be honest.

i absolutely agree. the sensible thing to do in a situation like this is to open first class and refund any first class passengers who are there the price of that ticket.

We did this recently-£53 for family on the day, £100 in advance for return journey on a 4hr journey- was lovely and so worth it in this weather.

Bloody hell. I can't believe some of the responses on here. Who knew there were so many people wealthy enough to afford first class who cant even read? IT. WAS. EMPTY.

However I can believe that there are many selfish twats who seriously think people in the standard carriages should be crammed in a shrunk down train containing ppl displaced from an earlier service, causing immense discomfort for them rather than allowing them to breathe the same air as those in first class. I get it about the paying for it but the train operator should commute all tickets to standard in that scenario and manage the occupancy of the train in a more equitable way. The small print in the first class offer should include a caveat that the first class service is offered where operationally possible.

Stations aren’t long enough for longer trains in lots of places. Nor are sidings, track sections, etc. Longer trains also cost money - millions per carriage.