AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

Cheap advance fares are often never available on some services, particularly the most popular ones. My sons regular trip home costs the same if he buys it today to come today as it would cost if he pre books for 2 months time! Just checked it on their website!

I remember in the 80s and 90s I travelled by train a lot, the guards would even usher you into empty 1st class carriages if the train was chocka. I had 2 babies, toddlers, so maybe they felt sorry for me?

We went a couple of years ago. We had to take a long route with several changes, some with only about 5 minutes change time - it was fine, even with lots of luggage. The trains were very full.(the route we should have been on was totally closed (Glacier Express…track out for a couple of weeks due to torrential rain/landslip). We paid the first class upgrade which wasn’t extortionate so that was full too but bigger seats so it was fine and they had enough luggage racks.

France last year however…we tried using local RER trains along the coast from Nice eastward, we were terribly squashed in standing, no First, horribly hot - in early October, goodness knows what it would have been like in summer! DH simply couldn’t stand it. Otoh the TGVs running to the west were lovely - upgrade to first was very affordable, so pretty well used, big comfy seats.

so…some railways abroad are better but some really aren’t.

you can pay to upgrade to 1st class if you want to sit there, even whilst on the train as long as there is availability - just ask the conductor and they can sort it for you. If you don’t want to pay then you don’t get to sit there no matter how busy the rest of the train is.
I do think however that standard class carriages need better luggage provision for large suitcases as the luggage racks are mostly tiny or only hold a few cases at most, and I don’t think that they should allow more passengers in standard class than there are seats. No one should pay to stand on a train, I think that if you do have to stand due to a cancelled service and overcrowded train, then your ticket should be refunded in full.

They can also call British Transport Police and have you physically removed at the next stop or even arrested if behaviour warrants it.

I think they should get rid of it totally.
Trains are crowded and lack seating. It is dangerous for people to be standing when they could sit down in another carriage.This reduces accident risks. Why don't we just make the travel experience better for everyone?

But even if they declassify 1st class, it still wouldn't get rid of the problem as if trains are running at busy times such as Christmas or another train is cancelled then there aren't sufficient seats for everyone. On GWR for example, there is only one full first class carriage and a much smaller one near the galley and that is usually full as people (especially older/disabled) book in advance for longer journeys especially the London-Penzance route.

I once paid for first class as I knew the train would be busy and I've had problems in the past with people refusing to move out of my reserved seat. I was expecting a nice quiet carriage, sitting in my own seat and being served free drinks and snacks.

At the next station, we were told the previous train had broken down and all the people from that train would be getting on.

Ended up with people piled into first class so we were jammed in like sardines and the free refreshments were unable to be served.

Understand why they did it and feel sorry for the people who were disrupted by the broken down train but it was also frustrating not getting the extras I'd paid for.

Well, if you have paid for first class for all the reasons mentioned upthread, I think you are at least entitled to a refund of the difference between first and second class. After all, we don't mind people having the seats but first class is first class for a reason.

If a trains been cancelled where you have booked a seat but there's no seats available on the next train yes you should be allowed in first class. It's not your fault the train was cancelled and it's not your fault your booked seats are not available so first class should be the option when there are free seats. It's not all about what first class customers want 😡🙄. I was on a train recently on an extremely hot day and the conductor told us to sit in first class because it was the coolest carriage. I don't care what the first class customers thought, it's not all about them

Has it occurred to you that if trains are canceled they are also canceled for people with first class tickets too? There aren't necessary any seats available there either.

Not the same at all, trains are subsidised by the public purse, they are a public service, whereas planes are very much a commercial affair.

Equally, I think people's default to self centredness is rife these days, what happened to empathy and being kind. I know for a fact, due to two personal experiences that years ago you would be offered to sit in first class and not be turfed out. The first time having a young baby 17 years ago and standing up with them attached to me in a baby carrier, the ticket inspector led me to first class and told me to take a seat. The second time was similar but this time toddler and baby and he helped me with the buggy. I really do think all this selfishness is the reason for our demise!

Carnt you read? I said first class should be available if there are seats free.

Equally, I think people's default to self centredness is rife these days, what happened to empathy and being kind.

That works both ways though. There's often a staggering lack of empathy or kindness on display in the standard carriages. Last time I was on a lengthy journey in standard the bloke in the seat next to me was working his way through a bag of Gregg's pasties and a 2 litre bottle of Strongbow. The train was packed and it was hot and the smell was making me feel sick. Various other people were getting the weekend started with bottles of wine, singing and carrying on. One fella was clearly several drinks in, doing impressions of Liam Gallagher, staggering up and down the aisle. It was hell for me. No consideration for the people who just wanted a quiet journey home. Never again. So if it's selfish of me to pay for first class and expect it not to be packed to the rafters with people who haven't paid for first class, then so be it.

Can't! Not carnt.

Nobody likes a pedant!

So all those people who had their train cancelled and are now on a train with no seats, except for first class are now expected to stand? Including the op who had an autistic child with her? Or including the elderly and disabled, they are all supposed to stand even through the cancellation wasn't their fault? Nice, there's a word for people like you.

No, I wouldn't have an issue with those people being brought into first class, not at all. But I would have an issue with it being made a free for all, so I end up crammed in with pastie/cider guy and his ilk again.

You wouldn't be able to pick and choose, you don't own first class.

I can see from comments that opening it up completely, or declassifying, would have been a problem.

But , surely, given the circumstances , the staff should have been able to use their discretion. My main issue with it was seeing that mother, with a baby in a carrier and a toddler , with luggage and no other adult , moved out into a crowded train with people standing in the aisles . She couldn’t stand there so she had to just go down the train looking. They could have just let her sit there - no one would have known she wasn’t first class , they could have discreetly spoke to her. Or maybe , getting to a station and seeing how busy it was and maybe discreetly approached a parent with children, an elderly couple , someone looking like they’re struggling and just said come and sit in here.

I have said a few times too - this is not about me wanting to sit in first class, I found seats. Luckily I did, but dragging all my bags down to the first class carriage with my children and it being obvious I was struggling … it wasn’t nice to then be made to walk back up and get all my cases on to a rammed train .

A whole carriage was kept for first class ‘in case’ yet everyone else had 8 carriages full of reserved seats down to 3 or 4 and it was a free for all - it didn’t seem fair .

But that is what you pay for, the assurance that getting on a train there will be space and will be a seat. The woman with baby and luggage etc someone who was sat down could have equally given up their seat to help.

Sadly, because it is such a cramped space, it would be very easy for others to overhear or observe such an offer and people can get remarkably aggressive if they perceive that others are being offered something they are not. I have witnessed this myself on public transport. I know that in a nice, courteous world, we would all agree that someone carrying an infant would be offered a seat somewhere but even then... think about what you just wrote. Why did nobody around that lady stand up to offer their seats in standard class? I have done that previously for older people on the long London-Cornwall run and sat on my suitcase in the vestibule between carriages. I would have done it for a disabled person, a pregnant lady, someone feeling unwell etc but not many others offered to give up their seats, not even when train staff went through the carriage asking.

When my kids were very young we too were on an overcrowded train, I asked about seating in first class and they said yes it was available, but I had to pay (which I did as I was feeling pretty desperate, it cost around £90 on top of my already bought standard ticket). It wasn’t in my budget as a single mum but needs must. It honestly didn’t occur to me that I should have it for free. Having children in tow is hard but it’s not an illness that was inflicted on you, it’s just life with kids. I had a terrible journey on a crowded train a couple of year’s ago, I had a back injury. I pondered upgrading but didn’t feel entitled to a free pass because I was in agony standing. Another passenger must have seen my pained face as he offered me his seat about 40 mins into the journey, I could have hugged him. 😭

When you purchase a standard class ticket, the terms of carriage only say they have to transport you from A to B and there is no guaranteed seat with the ticket.