AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

I think the fairest solution would be to declassify first class, but refund the difference in price between first and standard to those with 1st class tickets.

The rail SERVICE is a public service.

Like buses and the underground - a flat SERVICE should be of a high enough standard.

Logistical nightmare. You’d also make First Class less appealing in general - people wouldn’t pay for it if it was likely to be downgraded to standard class.

Renationalise the railways instead of concentrating on how streaming services word their contracts, Mr Burnham. Bring back British Rail.

Maybe someone else has an autistic son who will only sit in one particular seat in one particular first class carriage and opening said carriage to everyone else will deeply distress him.

That said I think first class is a joke.

Yes this is exactly right.

It's not the bloody Titanic.

No I don't think they should as it will result in people who have paid for first class not being able to get a seat. This has happened to me and I am disabled. I notice elderly people often pay for first class too probably for the same reason. If it's really important to you that you get a first class seat pay for it.

I don't really know why first class still exists on trains. It's not really very much better than normal seating. I'm surprised they didn't declassify it in these circumstances. It's quite commonly done in my experience, but perhaps it depends on the operator. The rear first class carriage on Thameslink trains is always declassified.

But it is open - anyone can book . You could book first class and the whole carriage be booked up. I’m not saying let anyone walk in and stand in the aisles etc , but surely you wouldn’t object to people whose reservations they paid for in other carriages are moved to seats in first class ?

Yes of course they should be opened.

Everyone would end up paying more to cover the lost revenue from First.

There are usually about four people in first class. I think the railways will cope if half of them decide not to travel.

The basics need to be improved across the board as a priority.

They do declassify sometimes.

i’m not sure on the situations it happens in because I use a wheelchair and get put in the disabled spot.

I am not saying the rail service is great now but do you actually remember British rail? it was a joke

All seats were showing as available . Surely it’s not common for someone to turn up at a station and book first class there and then? So in that case , the seats are were showing as available because they weren’t booked ? If not , they had 3 staff in the first class carriage so they could say to a struggling family you can sit here but if someone gets on with a first class ticket you will have to move . I don’t mean give the paid for first class seats away . I mean , let people who did reserve seats but lost them , sit in the unused first class seats.

If it didn't exist I couldn't travel as a disabled person as wouldn't be able to get a seat a lot of the time.

You can ask to upgrade. On ScotRail it’s cheaper to upgrade on the train than in advance. my friend often does a 3 hour journey to see her parents and found that out.

I would object. I've never been in first when the whole carriage is full, to me that's the best thing about it and why I pay for it.

I'd object because I would have paid a lot extra for my seat. The only situation I wouldn't object is if a disabled person had been unable to get a seat.

Also reservations are free. You pay for the journey, not a reserved seat. So the other people haven't paid for a reservation, they've paid to be transported from A to B, whether that's sitting or standing. They could have chosen to pay for first class too.

That's ok, the difference of half the first class seats on 300 standards seats would be limited. They can sell those seats to standard passengers anyway, if they all sell at standard they'd be ahead.

In that case , that seat would be booked for that individual wouldn’t it? So no one would be put there as it is reserved ? I’m not saying to cancel all first class reservations like the other reservations were and let it be a free for all - that’s unfair, people pay a lot for those seats . I am saying if the seats are free. The carriage was empty for the whole journey aside from about 2 people .

Let’s put it another way. Maybe a person is going through chemo, has been advised not to use public transport because of their massively
lowered immune system. They have to make a journey, but can only do it by train. Therefore they pay the extra money for a first class carriage knowing it will be less full, and with fewer children and therefore less dangerous for them. Then the train company decides to let in people to fill it up at no extra cost to those people. How should then immunocompromised person think about that? Fair?

That's a separate disgrace that shouldn't need to be resolved by you paying more for first class.

The whole situation is a mess, but preserving one small corner for a few who have more resources is an unacceptable situation.

But you would still have your seat ?

I understand you may book it because that carriage is quieter , but the seats are all there available to book , so the fact that less people book first class meaning you have a quieter carriage is a bonus , it’s not a term of your ticket. You aren’t entitled to that carriage being half empty .

Quite often you can't reserve seats even if in first class though so doesn't mean noone with a first class ticket will want to travel. I know you would think you could but that often isn't the case. And why assume people with a first class ticket don't just turn up to travel?

The carriage was empty for the whole journey aside from about 2 people. This is what first class usually is like on the lines I travel (both mainline and regional, although some regional have no first class).

The railways would make more by selling this as standard capacity.