AIBU to think empty first class should be opened on crowded trains?

[boredsoscrollingonMNagain]

I was on a long journey this weekend , It was a 5 and a half hour journey with one change.

our first train was massively delayed , meaning we missed our next one. But , we coped and it’s all done now and we will get compensated .

However , I was really cross at this:

We had reserved seats on both trains. We don’t travel on trains with no reserved seats as my eldest is autistic and gets distressed with nowhere to sit. He prefers a certain seat, so we always try for that, but the main thing is he has a seat. The train was taken from 9 to 4 carriages so all reservations cancelled and this first train was a 2 hr journey for us. My husband wasn’t with us and we had large cases so I was stressed ! My eldest was obviously worried - luckily we found seats and all was ok . But , when the train came in I saw a carriage empty and my worry was getting these cases on alone and having no space , so I went to the empty carriage and was turned away because it was first class. We got on fine in the end, thanks to the help of lovely strangers and we got seats right next to first class and I could see in and it said all seats were available- not reserved - and maybe 2 people in the whole carriage. For the whole journey , the other carriages were like sardines - it was awful. They announced they couldn’t get the refreshment trolley out because it was so busy ( also it was during a heatwave ) . First class was empty. I saw a family - including a woman with a tiny baby in a carrier and young children, turfed out. I saw many families struggling to find places to sit.

Now , I understand if you have paid for first class and the carriage was full of people who hadn’t , you would be angry . I agree if you have paid first class you should be able to sit in it. But if it’s empty , why were people turfed out when everyone’s reserved seats were cancelled ? I would understand if first class was busy , so all were reserved and they kept that carriage for that reason - it costs a lot . I also would understand if maybe they usually had 2 first class carriages ( I don’t know if they do ) , took one off , so kept all the first class seats for those with first class tickets , but on a first come first served basis. But to have them all free , the whole journey , with lots of people - families coming back from holiday - who reserved seats for a long journey and lost them , standing and struggling - but then keep it empty and leave people standing , and actively turn people holding babies in arms away - I found this disgusting !

Just to add - this isn’t about me wanting to go in first class , we had seats , we were ok and I did offer my seat up too.

Yep but that isn't what you buy in first class. That was my point badly explained!

It’s always a good idea to try and book seats though. At least that way you’ve got a fighting chance of having a seat. I’ve learnt the hard way myself to remember to book a seat if I’m on a train for more than an hour (if reserving is an option).

No standing allowed in first class.

Absolutely!

Me too. I have never yet been able to secure a cheaper fare by trying to book as far in advance as possible. I’ve just looked on Trainline and my son’s uni tran fare home is the same in 12 week’s time (their advanced booking limit) as it is tomorrow. Even the first class option is the same. Maybe year’s ago it was a thing but it’s not now, at least not where we are.

Does he have the 18-26 railcard? If not, get one as it saves a third. Also try the TrainPal app.

That was very kind of them. It can’t be an expectation though, just a very pleasant surprise when it does happen. (I don’t mean you expect it).

So what do all those people in first class do when they don't want the riff raff when people need to use the toilet in first class carriage? Non first class customers are allowed to use the first class toilets and you usually have to walk the entire carriage to use them. Baby change is normally in the first class carriage and accessible toilets. What do those people do then? Just seeth in silence, oh god don't let the unwashed in with their shock horror pasties 😏 and voices.

Oh yes, he has that, every penny helps when you’re a student.

Perhaps they just walk through the carriage and use it?

I think you over estimate the people’s interest in other passengers. Most have their heads buried in their laptops with ear buds in.

Train staff do have that discretion and I have seen them use it in the past. However not all are very compassionate....

Because there has been plenty of first class passengers on here saying they don't want the other passengers in the first class carriage for various reasons.they would definitely notice someone walking through for the toilet. What's their opinion on that?. They can't stop them, there's signs in the non first class carriage directing them to the first class carriage toilets.

OP you’ve mentioned a couple of times about your large cases on the train how much space were they taking up? I’m thinking you’re going to say non

i used to travel a lot a few years ago and you’d see a few rucksacks, small cases on the train. I recently started travelling again and there are huge cases for a family of 4 everywhere. I’m not talking about trains that go to airports obviously just standard commuting trains

People would have got up for her. I remember people doing that when my children were toddlers. She probably just went straight to first class and wasn't happy when they asked her to pay for the upgrade.

Suitcases on trains is not new. In the 80s we travelled to the seaside for our holidays, 4 kids, 2 adults we had 4 suitcases between us. When I go on holiday now it's always in the UK and always by train so I take a suitcase. Commuter trains go further afield from where you are commuting to, often across the country, sometimes you have to change trains 2 or 3 times to get to your destination, using commuter trains so there will be suitcases. Commuter trains are not solely used for people getting to work.Not all holidays require you to get an airport train to the airport. It might surprise you that suitcases are also taken on buses, trams and coaches for the same reason.

But @Poppinpoppinpopcorn the trains aren’t fit for purpose for all the travellers and all the luggage now. There’s no way most people are going to get their oversized luggage in the overhead bays or between the seats which leaves only the limited luggage storage so they end on seats, the bit outside the toilets, hanging out of the aisle etc

maybe they should take a coach instead, plenty of room to put luggage there

If the trains aren't fit for purpose it's not the fault of people who need to use the train, I've always taken my case on the train. No I won't take a coach and more than double my journey time. If it bothers you so much take the coach yourself . Why do you think commuters get priority? People have always used trains to go on holiday and taken suitcases.

Equally, why are we not addressing the need for public transport to be useable, accessible and universal in its quality of service. I am from the SE and went to Yorkshire for a bit at the start of the summer, the place I was trying to get to from York had an almost 3 hour train journey, by car this is a 1hr journey, hardly any buses in this place. This is absolutely shocking when we are facing this climate emergency. Good public transport is essential, not just for the wealthy.

Why are people assuming that a) everyone in first class is always quiet and b) anyone who is allowed in who hasn't paid for it is going to be noisy?

I think it's just silly to have loads of seats empty when there are people standing and they can't even run the trolley service.

Years ago you used to be able to pay an extra if they had free seats in First class once you got on the train. Wish they’d bring that back.

But your 3 hour journey from York probably didn't even have a first class area, and even if it did, the journey wouldn't be any quicker for the first class passengers.

But generally, yes, public transport is utter crap in lots of places, and Yorkshire/Transpennine route <> Manchester/Liverpool is not fit for purpose in any form. But first class really isn't part of the problem. The bigger problem is a couple of crap train operating firms (both Nationalised!!), lack of improvements in infrastructure for decades, etc.

You can still upgrade on the train with some operators. Sometimes, such as Sundays, it's remarkably cheap, but often you don't get the extras such as hot meal etc (on Sundays).

The very few times I’ve been first class it’s been a ‘free’ sandwich and a packet of crisps. What hot meals are they serving?

There was a large case , one I would say medium but was very packed and a small one. We them all had bags each . The cases were on the luggage racks and the bags with us , put overhead . We had been on holiday

Coaches take a lot longer and I get travel sick. I don’t on a train so I would never choose the coach over the train