Ds accused of a hate crime

[dinosaursroars]

Hi everyone i need advice on how to deal with ds2

A few nights ago my eldest came to me in tears and said that he thought he was gay and had a bf who was his best friend first and i knew him but he said that they kept it quiet as his bfs family are muslim but they somehow found out and he broke up with ds they were going to be friends but ds told him he shouldn’t date a girl just for his parents approval as it’s selfish and not fair to treat a girl like that

boy said ds didn’t understand and blocked him this was a few weeks ago and because he lives close ds hasnt wanted to go out anywhere incase he sees him which ive noticed as he’s not gone anywhere all summer

his younger brother overheard this as he walked into the living room and didn’t say anything but ive had a message from the boys mum they live in the same building as us so i have her number but we arent close but she said ds2 had seen her son in the park and shouted at him, threw his pepsi over him and said homophobic slurs at him and his friends and maybe ds her son wasn’t sure shouted racist slurs at him she’s mentioned the police for a hatecrime which has freaked me out even tho she probs should as that behaviour isn’t ok

ive texted him to come home and he hasn’t the mum said her son said they rode off on their bikes but hes not even answered me. ds1 is upset as hes made everything worse

ages as people will ask probably ds1 is 17 next friday and ds2 is 14, the boy is 17

I would have said to the mum, I'm not going to comment until I hear my sons version of events. He's never behaved like this before so I need to understand what has gone on. You need to sit down properly and speak to your son. Tell him you need to know the truth. In your op it says the other boy 'wasn't sure' he heard racist comments so it's not a very convincing report. I would always have my child's back initially if he was not known for past behaviour so it seems odd you have jumped to this account being factual. If he has said those things then absolutely he would be punished and be told to apologise. Just for clarification you said your son was there but this boy had a group of friends so a 14 Yr old goes against a group of 17 year olds? Or was he also with a group of boys?

I don't think this is good advice. It's very wrong. The OP doesn't like her son's behaviour and wants him to learn from it whilst trying to help other son. Here's my issue you are telling her to get her son to lie(if he did say the awful things.) That's terrible parenting and all that is wrong with parents these days covering up for kids. No wonder us teachers are in despair. Worst advice I have ever seen on MN

Forgive me for being jaded I know people like to say all this when it’s someone else’s kid but when their own son actually physically assaults his girlfriend or another kid they hire the best lawyer in town.

At the end of the day he said some things to someone who dumped his brother and poured a drink (let’s be honest I say this as the kid who was always good to the point it was pathetic but when we were kids we all knew loads of kids that did far far worse than that) allowing your child to get a black mark against their name over something that cannot be proved if you just deny it would be pretty bad.

And I don’t think the majority of people encouraging it on here would do the same with their own kid.

The parents calling the police over “homophobic slurs” is ridiculous considering they are forcing their son to date women.

If the police do come round, make sure your son doesn't get interviewed without a solicitor.

There was clearly some altercation between them but it really isn't clear who said what from your account so far.

The other mom doesn't really have a reason to lie to you about what she's heard but that doesn't mean her son was 100% truthful/accurate to her (you aren't 100% convinced by ds2 account so why would you be 100% certain about the other boys). You need to speak to your son again calmly and try to get to the truth. I'm assuming you normally have some idea if he's lying to you?

Your son will need some punishment for his part in this from you because from everyone's account there is some wrong doing but you don't want him getting a criminal record unless he's definitely committed the crime.

I have younger children i couldnt just go and get him

This - is it the truth or has the other boy made up a story ? Get your DS version and don't let him go to the police station without a solicitor, he doesn't want a criminal record at his age.

So you believe the other boy and the DM over your DS ? Have you not heard about Henry Novak ?

Helpful comment...

Hes never done anything like this before but he has had issues with his attitude and behaviour in school and at home but i thought we were getting somewwhre his behaviour points had gone down before the summer holidays which was a huge thing since they were one of the highest in his year if not the highest before that but he isnt perfect so i dont believe him especially after how he spoke to me and i dont believe his version of his events

I think I’d get DS2 to calm down and talk you through exactly what happened.

If bad things have happened at the other boy’s house and blame laid at DS1 door, he might well be in the mood to lash out, and throw insults about being fat etc. Was he in the company of people who would know his family and expect him to be hostile to your family? Lashing out after getting a hard time at home?

Would your son act like this without provocation? Has he done something like this before? Is there a possibility he was trying to defend his brother, albeit clumsily?

Throwing a drink is wrong. Racism/homophobia very wrong. But let’s not pretend we don’t all know that kids will go for the low hanging fruit in an argument without necessarily believing in what they’re saying.

Whatever your son says I would be texting the other mum to say ‘ds2 has given me a different version of events, but he has admitted to xyz and would like to apologise. Would it be okay to come over with him so he can do so?’ Because at the very least you know he threw the drink so that’s one apology right there.

This is a very sensitive situation and you can’t control what the other family do, say or how they act going forward- but you can clean your own side of the street by making things right as far as you can and not having anything like this happen again.

As crap as this is for your family to be going through in this moment, in the long run it’s the other kid who is going to have the harder time if the family will not accept him for who he is, and if your son is reluctant to apologise, you could remind him of that.

OP - many people have given you lots of advice over many many threads about your 5 children. When people questioned why you had a baby when you already had 4 and were facing ‘anger issues’ with one of your eldest - they were not being unkind. They meant that you clearly don’t have the bandwidth to parent.

I find people who use virtue signalling as an insult are too dull to make a coherent argument

This thread is a low point of mumsnet. The amount of people diminishing what the 14 year has done because the family are Muslim, or are suggesting that they lie to the police, or are saying the boy defended his gay brother by shouting homophobic insults. It is pure racism and imagine it would be different if it was a sexist assault

Surely the police have more serious things to deal with than awful comments made by a teenage boy. Parents should be dealing with this unacceptable behaviour, not the police.

thank you

I dont know if he would do something like this unprovoked but his version doesnt really add up and i havent been able to properly speak to him again as i havent been well

Hes never been homophobic or racist but earlier in the year he was seen throwing snowballs at members of the public and swore at one of them after she had told him to stop and she reported it to his school as he was wearing uniform he even denied that at first but then eventually admitted it and he does seem to deny stuff he thinks he can get away with so i dont know what to believe

This exactly!
Start from this perspective and ensure your son understands no matter how much he wants to protect and stand up for his brother he can’t resort to such unacceptable insults slurs or behavior and it won’t be tolerated by you or society.

I’d say your son has more to gain by lying about this than the other person

This is a cry for attention of a middle child of 5. A new baby. No effective male figure in his life. You need to do some tough parenting. Close work with the school on a behaviour plan with actual consequences. Just because you have a new baby and other children does not mean you cannot afford to not take this so seriously. Can you ask anyone for support - is there a wellbeing team at school? Social services? Parenting classes?

OP, my DS at 14 was part of a group where similar behaviour was going on only it was on Discord so there was evidence. The boys who expressed racist and other forms of discriminatory language were spoken to by the police school liaison officer and were given temporary suspensions The rest of them were given warnings about throwing insults back and forth, and all parents involved were asked to come to school for a meeting with the police where we were advised to monitor what they were writing online.

If you think your DS has done this - and you need to be prepared that he might well have done - then he needs a very big shock. Mine certainly got that and has never done anything unpleasant since. He’s 18 now but it isn’t long since we stopped checking his online activity.

We took his phone off him and only allowed computer use for school work for a week or so if I remember rightly. In your case I’d take his bike off him if the problem is his riding around with mates and behaving badly. He needs to know that he’s in huge trouble. And I’d be telling him he will be in even bigger trouble if he doesn’t get home now.

No he didn’t, he potentially used racial and homophobic slurs (absolutely nothing to condone that because it is completely disgusting that he did) however the event itself wasn’t homophobic or racially motivated, it was motivated by his older brother being dumped and hurt.

That doesn’t change that what he has done is completely disgusting, but the motivation wasn’t what is claimed and it is not a hate crime.

What do you mean he's gone out shouting that nobody can take a joke?

He's been accused of some pretty heinous stuff, he has form for being problematic, and you just let him walk out the door?

Jesus! Take some control here because it sounds like he's going down the path of being a little scrote and you're doing nothing about it.

You don't know this for a fact. You weren't there. You don't know his motivations. And actually, I'd say given that he has engaged in antisocial behaviour before, and doesn't particularly care about his brother, this was an opportunity for he and his gang to be little thugs.

OP you reaction is really bizarre.

I can’t understand why you’re so quick to assume your DS has behaved badly when he has no history of racism or homophobia nor why you can’t fathom why the mother would
lie.

it’s a really odd approach 🤷‍♀️

if i had said he would never do such a thing id be piled in here too so i cant win .

That’s true, posting online you get criticised no matter what. You’ll be told the right thing to do is to make your son admit what he did to the police by people who hire expensive lawyers when their own sons beat their girlfriends or other kids up.

The police love easy convictions where people just fess up straight away and no investigation has to be done. If he just denied it there’s nothing they can do without proof.

However only you know your son and if this is a regular pattern of behaviour and he could do with the “scare factor” of being spoken to by police. If he’s an otherwise good boy (he won’t be the first 14 year old boy to shout rude things) then make sure he knows not to speak without a solicitor.

Remember it’s best not to have this on his record.