Butt on display at lunch in south of France

[flipperfizz]

I am currently having lunch in a beach restaurant and a girl with a lovely toned body is wearing a tiny thong with full ass on display. This seems to be a fashion thing and there are lots of women wearing the same cheese cutter! People are staring and some women are laughing. I find it a horrible trend and I am wondering what others think.

Yes, absolutely. Women are generally unbothered by female nudity (in appropriate contexts, which I'd argue a restaurant is not) and men either enjoy seeing it or aren't bothered by it, but a male nudity is absolutely innately threatening to many women in many situations. To deny that is disingenuous.

I am really interested to know if pp on this thread would be fine with their 13-year-old daughter wearing a thong bikini.

Utter nonsense

If it's utter nonsense, you should find it very easy to actually make an argument against it. Right?

Would you let your 13-year-old daughter wear a thong bikini, incidentally?

Oh I do hope she was shown to a table with lattice chairs.

No, but I’d happily let her play in the sand naked on the beach if that’s what she chose to do. And surely your imaginary “social contract” must work both ways? So one person’s rights not to see a naked body because they personally happen to find it distasteful or whatever, cannot trump another person’s rights to enjoy skinny dipping in an appropriate setting?

Why wouldn't you let her wear a thong bikini if its not sexual, and just beachwear? Also, you'd let your 13-year-old play naked on the beach?! Erm...

Distasteful? Did I say distasteful, or did I say unsettling and intimidating? It depends on the setting – off the beaten track a ways, where you're unlikely to be disturbed? Sure, that seems reasonable as despite being a public space it's fairly private in practice. In the local park duck pond? No.

I don't think anyone thinks it would be courteous to laugh at the woman. Directly targeting an individual in that way would be absolutely unkind.

But I don't think OP did. She posted on here for a discussion of it in a light-hearted tone, and the woman concerned could hardly recognise herself even if she is on MN.

Light-heartedness is often a way people approach a topic that has weightier considerations, and if it isn't directed at the individual, I think it is far better than a pp's suggestion that a genuinely concerned op would have approached her and asked if she realised she was being judged and if she was feeling ok! To me that's top drawer passive aggression - a term I hate because most things labelled as such aren't.

Discussion of social customs or trends is how they are evaluated and how they evolve.

I mentioned mankini because it’s like the equivalent of a thong bikini in male form basically . Is that not obvious

Funny how being naked is preferable to what has been described as being “clothed” earlier . Why is being naked preferable to a teenager being clothed if there is nothing wrong at all with the item of clothing in question. It is just “clothing “ after all isn’t it ??

I don’t think I said anywhere that thong beachwear wasn’t sexualised did I?

I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with a thong bikini per se when worn by an adult, but of course I wouldn’t want to see one worn by a child. As for being naked, that’s just what many of us did when we were kids wasn’t it? Well that’s how I was brought up by my parents anyway. I have many fond memories of playing on beaches naked as a child, although tbf when I hit puberty I instantly covered up for about a decade!

Perhaps not in those exact words, but you've certainly implied it.

You've said, for instance, that it can be purely to get a tan. Well, tanning isn't sexual, is it? And you also don't think naked bums without thongs are sexual – so why is getting out your bum but covering your vulva by wearing a thong, sexual in your opinion? And yet showing your bum and vulva isn't?

Why (why?!) would you let your 13-year-old daughter only expose her bottom if she also exposes her vulva? (Horrifying by the way – that's not protecting your child – she shouldn't be showing either!) "Yes darling, you can let your bottom get some sun, but only if you show your vulva too!" What the actual fuck?

I can't believe this is genuine, frankly.

Perfectly put thank you!

Good morning! And I’m back on here again first thing. That’s because I created the post and therefore I’m engaging with it. Hope that’s ok? Not sure what my husband has got to do with it!

“why is getting out your bum but covering your vulva by wearing a thong, sexual in your opinion? And yet showing your bum and vulva isn't?”
The same way that choosing to wear skimpy lacy lingerie is a sexualised choice, whereas stripping off to sunbathe, swim, shower or have a bath is not. You seem to be conflating two different things. Simply being naked is not in itself inherently sexual. As for my children, yes they have happily played on the beach naked, exactly the same as I did as a child. The only two things I have always insisted on is that they be plastered in suncream and that they always keep their sunhats on.

OP I appreciate the way you've stayed with this thread - I get so cross when OPs just disappear, don't answer questions or clarify things. I have never dared to start a thread on MN because of the 'duty of care' it would involve!

And I know you've been wrongly accused of mocking this young woman when in fact you merely observed other people doing that.

No-one should be publicly mocked for their clothing/appearance. But when they are, although it's not nice, it does raise questions about their choices - it makes us think about clothing and the messages it communicates.

I know that pps have said - I'm just putting on my bikini - I'm not thinking of the semiology of clothing. Sure, but at some point that bikini will have been chosen above other styles and that's where the element of choice/communication comes in.

I'm very boring - my swimsuit has always been a black one-piece and the message is: nothing to see here...I'm just doing my exercise!

Bum cheeks out at the beach/pool wouldn’t bother me, Infact I would be impressed they had the confidence but at lunch whether your male or female you cover up imo.

Thank you, it is my first post and it’s been a fascinating debate. But it’s good that I am on holiday as I would not have kept up with it!
My original point was really all about the context and the setting. But I agree, what we choose to wear can mean something different depending on where we are and the situation. I think maybe that’s being lost in all of this.

Yes - for me the crucial part of the OP is not the 'butt' but the 'lunch'!

To me it's about what's appropriate in different settings.

Yes, some clothing can be sexual, such as lacy lingerie. But I'm surprised that if you think a bum is not a sexual part in itself/exposing it isn't sexual, that you would think a swim thong (hardly lacy, or risque other than that it exposes the buttocks) is a sexual item of clothing.
It seems inconsistent that you think showing both vulva and bum isn't sexual, but covering the vulva makes it sexual. It's also odd that you think its reasonable to wear something you equate to sexualised lingerie, in a restaurant.

Regardless, letting your 13-year-old daughter (not 3-year-old, but 13) be naked on a public beach is such immensely terrible parenting that I'm afraid I can't take anything you say seriously now.

Yet wearing a thong bikini is inherently sexual apparently. Therefore in my opinion not appropriate for a restaurant setting in any way shape or form . I don’t see what’s feminist or empowering about women wearing something so sexualised in a restaurant that being naked is preferable for others

A lot of artists would say that the nude figure in itself isn't titillating or sexualised. It's the naked body of an animal, and can be beautiful. I mean - think of statues such as the Apollo Belvedere etc - a perfect male body, but not sexy.

I think bottoms are just bottoms in that context. But once you add say lace, strategically placed, or choose to reveal/emphasise certain features and conceal others, that's where the titillation comes in.

Nothing wrong with that in the right context - which I would say is the bedroom/boudoir/whatever. I personally wouldn't appreciate it while having lunch.

Again, you are still conflating two different things. The wearing of a thong bikini could be construed as being more sexual than simply being naked, depending on the context, as it is a premeditated choice of the wearer, but as I have already clearly explained upthread, it could also simply be that the wearer wanted to get an even suntan. Again, I’ll reiterate as you seem to have missed the point, being naked on its own does not automatically equate to sex.
As for daughters naked on the beach, I seem to recall it was you who mentioned age 13 not me? For the record, and purely as you seem so intent on judging other peoples’ parenting skills, my daughter wouldn’t have been seen dead without clothes by the time she was 13, much the same as I was by the time I hit puberty.

Yes. I very clearly asked if you would let your 13-year-old daughter wear a thong. You said no, but you'd let her be naked on the beach. The fact that you would let her be nude on the beach at 13, if she wanted to, is just wild.

Well said!