To think the El Salvador prison idea is a brilliant one?

[Jess788]

I usually steer clear of the news but caught this story earlier. What a brilliant idea - the prisons are overflowing and this would free up space and also save money.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yw9d2212xo

We had an opportunity to do something similar with our own oil wealth in the 1970's. We didn't.

It would be eye-wateringly expensive to send all foreign criminals to El Salvador.

Cheaper to just bring back the death penalty. Only outlay then is on rope & rubber pants.

🙄

It’s scary how many simpletons we have in our country thinking these are “brilliant ideas”. Very scary indeed.

So weird that people who supposedly care so much about British sovereignty are happy for a private citizen with no democratic backing to put forward proposals that would infringe on the rights of British citizens.

That said, I'm more than happy for labour to use the rest of their term to explore this further and look at sending all reform supporters off to El Salvador on terrorism charges.

I suspect the reformites would suddenly oppose such an idea mind you...

I know the super max prisons are shocking but some of the regular prisons hsve really positive programs. The idea is that prisoners have no free time do they work 8 hours a day then participate in training/ education classes/ sports, 8 hours of sleep and do it all again. Zero tolerance for drugs or violence, all mobile phone signals blocked.

Not saying it’d work for everyone but lots come out of UK prisons worse thsn before.

It’d never get off the ground as there’d be lots of appeals .

Norway also focuses their prison system on rehabilitation over punishment so even the likes of Arnfinn Nesset were released.

But despite having some of the lowest recidivism rates in the world no party in the UK would ever propose such a system because they no at least half thr population don't have the intelligence to see the bigger picture

How would you expect me to be able to answer this? My point was that not all criminals convicted in El Salvador are sent to CECOT and not all prisons in El Salvador are set up like CECOT.

Except - it doesnt. They used to transport or hang people for petty theft. Crime levels remained very high.

You can't "just deport them'.

Legally you can't deport if they are likely to receive inhumane or degrading treatment that fails below a level incompatible with human rights, as set out in the ECHR, in their country of destination.

If we leave the ECHR it affects our ability to trade with our European neighbours and it will put even more additional barriers up with them over border control.

The EU will not stand for a cutting of human rights without making life miserable for the UK. Even if it harms their financial interests because human rights are so central to the entire workings of the EU which was born in the post WW2 era of recovery and healing from the scars of the war.

Not to mention leaving the ECHR would have a massive impact on all of us in terms of standards of living and our own rights. It would allow big businesses and the state to exploit workers to a much greater degree, just at a time when there are so many questions about AI and billionaires and surveillance states and population control in ways which mean we almost become slaves to those in power with zero accountability. Which is really what Farage is after for his own financial gain. Under those circumstances poverty and crime are not likely to decrease. We are more likely to have even more inequality and even more acts of desperation. There's only so many people you can deport before you start to have such a problem that you have to start finding another type of Solution.

If you don't understand this, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Are you doubting his credibility? He has all the answers but obviously not about his houses, finances, meetings with people, whereabouts in Clacton or the HoC. Prisons, migrants and Brexit are easy fixes for Nigel

We (Thatcher) sold off our chance for that to the highest bidder/private industry.

Sure some you can’t but most you probably can.

Gov stats themselves say a third are Albanian, Romanian, Polish and Irish.

And I can’t see the rest of the stats but that’s a very good start so I reckon you could get atleast 50%

Foreign nationals are currently 12% of the estate so that’s 6% atleast instantly freed up. Although don’t know if the Irish would just come straight back.

No. Stop finding creative ways of colonising other countries. Your prisoners, your problem.

I agree.

Torture, prisoners "disappearing", massive overcrowding etc, and significant concerns about human rights generally in El Salvador are alarming.

Sending prisoners from the UK to El Salvador would make the UK no better than El Salvador imo.

I like the idea, but I just don’t think the British public would go for it for sex offenders, murderers etc. There seems to be this underlying idea that prison should equal retribution and suffering, not helped by the media.

Sounds a bit like when criminals used to be sent off to Australia in the 1700’s!! So rather a backwards step as if it was a success then it would still be happening now!
I get that criminals are bad people however surely the hope is that they should be rehabilitated to then return to ‘normal life’ if they’re shipped off to Estonia how are their families going to visit? When they’re released do they come back here or are they dumped on the streets in Estonia?

Agree re media, I was curious why if that was your own opinion.

I think there’s an assumption that decent conditions are less of a punishment, whereas the terrible conditions of UK prisons are incidental, not intentional. The worst are those that accommodate the least serious offenders. High security prisons have access to decent cooking facilities, are all single cell and have a better staffing ratio so historically have been less violent and had fewer drug related issues and suicides. This is changing for the worse because of the constant budget cuts.

I think it was foreign criminals(whom we are paying £40,000 a year for to incarcerate them here) that Reform were saying should be shipped off somewhere presumably cheaper

But clearly CECOT is where Farage has in mind for this scheme. Otherwise why specify El Salvador in particular?

Even if that’s the case, why not send them to their home country, where we would not have to pay for their continued incarceration? Of course that only works where people have served at least some of their sentence. If you’re a victim of a crime by someone from a country where that wouldn’t be an imprisonable offence, they get sent back and are free, no criminal record in their country, no punishment? Probably not.

I watched this. It was grim as fuck. Almost akin to a concentration camp.

Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and Paula Vennels for starters.

I have not clicked on the article, but this sounds like the usual right wing headline grab which is in fact total nonsense, like Rwanda. In any case, aren’t we supposed to be flying less, ‘cos climate change, innit?

We are not forgetting about the £5 million gift poor Nigel is just praying this will go away

I guess next will be informing us of the plans to bring back the death penalty

Its not going to happen, too many laws in place that protect us all and lets not forget the spectacular fail and wasted money spent on the Rwanda asylum project

It only failed because the left put every obstacle in their way.

Obstacles like the law, do you mean?