DS escalating consequences given by DH

[ThaQuilomum]

Sorry this will be long.

DS age 15 is smart, kind and funny but too into screens. Does very well at school but needs to be told to study and sat on. His phone is controlled by us by Quostodio app so it is limited to approximately 2 to 3 hours per day. He is allowed to game at the weekend for 3 hours ish although it is often longer. If he was let, he would stay on screens all day long. During the summer, he can game some evenings also. He has a few jobs he does. Usually has to be reminded: feed the dog, walk the dog, empty the dishwasher. In July he was involved in gym project in the garage with the whole family - clearing out the garage, painting it and putting new gym equipment together. His best friend is abroad at the moment on an exchange. He looks forward to gaming with him in the evenings as there is a time difference. He socialises mainly online.

It is hard to get ds off Gaming. He recently started playing Rainbow Six Siege Where once you start playing you get peanlties and rank can be affected. But if given a warning to turn off once game is over he will come off. This can legitimately be in 30 mins though once the game finishes often the first team to reach 5. So in theory could be up to 9 rounds.

Dh and I had both previously agreed to give DS a fair warning to wrap up gaming sessions. But last night DH demanded he turn off the console instantly while ds was in the middle of a live match. Dh said it was in the loading screen. Ds said it was actually started.

The Escalation: Expecting an immediate shutdown within seconds I feel set ds up for instant failure. When he didn't comply instantly, dh stayed in the room giving out til the match was over. I was in bed having spent evening ferrying dd to activity and asked him to get ds off the game following what i know needs to be done in order to get ds off and over the high and dopamine hit of the game.

I woke to it conpletley escalated. Dh saying he was losing 45 minutes of gaming tomorrow. This went to no gaming tomorrow, to uninstalling the game and to taking the pc out of the house altgoether. Dh definitely eacalated things. Did not hold his boundary calmly. Said ds was harrassing and judging him ('what do you do all day' kind of comments from ds). He pointed out that dh spends hours and hours every day on his phone. Dh was shouting and in his face and ds was saying he was a bully and treats the girls differently and does not give the girls such punishments.

i tired to intervene and calm the situation down. There was no calming dh down who was getting bedroom keys to lock ds in and telling me to f off and slamming doors. Eventually dh locked himself in the sittingroom downstairs and went to sleep while I comforted ds and he cried himself to sleep.

I woke up to ds telling me dh had removed all his time from his phone which i feel is vindictive. Dh says he doesn't respect him and answers him back the whole time. Last night ds was cursing at dh which is extremely rare for him and he was so dysregulated I can see why although it is not right and it needs to be addressed in a calm way after the fact.

10 year old dd was awake during it and recognised the overreaction and stepped in to tell dh he was going too far. He shouted at her that she had no scream time tomorrow.

he is now not talking to me and dh I think. Seems to be talking to dds. How he is not ashamed of himself and reflecting on this is beyond me..

This happens about twice a month always with ds and I end up trying to support a reasonable consequence and have tried on calm days to explain to dh that he is 15 with a developing brain and his push back is normal teenage behaviour and he is actually a very sweet lovely boy. What would you do in this scenario. It is a constant source of conflict between us and tbh I make no apologies standing up for ds because I think the behaviour is so unfair. I just want consequences to be porportionate. I actually feel ds did nothing wrong initially and then lost it completely and didnt shower himself in glory. But how does dh align all that with thr fact he lost his shit and behaved really badly. Aibu to expect dh to be able to regulate himself and deal calmly with his son. He is a gamer himself which I think makes it worse he doesn't understand.

I put yabu as you should've protected your children and left already.

I agree, I don’t know much about gaming but I wouldn’t walk into a room where my fifteen year old was playing monopoly with her friends and say she had to stop playing right now and then go mad when she said she was in the middle of a game. Or tell her she had to stop watching a film with her friends and lock her in her bedroom because she objected.

sounds like it escalated as your DH didn’t believe the game had actually started, so probably feels DS is pushing his luck and had loads of time already. My son loved to game, but if him gaming was leading to massive family arguments, then i’d be telling him to find a new hobby. The more he plays, the more addictive he becomes. That said, it’s the school hols, and mine had no time limits. My son put his PS4 away term time when GCSE’s started, so I didn’t mind him playing late into the night during holidays. Your DH has anger issues and I wouldn’t have been on his side either. But your son was also rude to his father. A break from the game is a good thing, but DH need to address his anger or have a poor relationship with his son.

@ThaQuilomum I don’t condone your DH losing his temper, but I do think you are in danger of excusing unacceptable behaviour from your DS too. I think you are perhaps overcompensating because you don’t like your DH’s reaction- but I think this is unwise because it gives out the wrong messages. Yes, you need to tackle DH’s loss of temper, as it doesn’t sound like it’s a one off, and DS needs to know that you are aware there is an issue and it’s not ok. BUT you also have to help him understand that he has been in the wrong too, and what he needs to do differently too. And that includes taking any negative consequences on the chin. Be careful that he is not playing you off against each other too- my brother was a master at that and it caused quite a lot of conflict in our household for a time. Looking back on it with adult eyes, I see why and how it happened but I think my dad got a harder time than was fair because my mum defended my brother far too much (not that dad got it right either). It didn’t do him much good either, if I’m honest- something my mum agrees with.

I understand you have a general rule about giving warning before time to stop gaming- fine. However, I don’t understand why your DS cannot, on occasion, be told he has to stop the game immediately- and then be absolutely expected to do so? He doesn’t have to like it but, ultimately, he has to do as he is asked. Failure to do so should result in some sort of consequence, imho. When he failed to accept that consequence and started insulting his father, I think it is correct that there are further negative consequences- further loss of screen time seems appropriate. I think it’s ok for your DH to be angry that your DS did not do as he was asked and then was really rude and disrespectful. I also think it’s ok for is ok to show you are angry. Not to shout in his face and lose the plot, which is where he is wrong.

Your DH does need to reign in his temper- though I have to admit to losing my temper with a foul-tempered, rude teenaged offspring on the very odd occasion. Yes, their brain is developing but that is the reason they do act inappropriately, it doesn’t excuse it or mean they can expect to be exempt from the consequences when they are wrong. Your DH does need to find a way to control his temper and needs to apologise to DS for that- not for giving him consequences when he did not behave as expected, or for being angry when he was insulted. Your DS needs to apologise for his wrongdoings too.

I have a 15 year old DS, he plays siege, he also goes out with his friends, plays football, and does fine at school. I just leave him to it, it doesn’t cause an issue.

Read this back to yourself please. What would you say to your closest friend or little sister (if you had one) if they told you this about their DH?

I’d say ‘Hey dh. If you get to lose your shit and swear at a 15 year old boy, your son, then I get to do that at an adult, and you say not one fucking word. You’re the adult- I want every fucking internal door key in the house handed to me now then you to walk out the door and take sometime to think. I need you to get the fuck out of our home with your rages and swearing and punishments and banning screen time and locking doors. Go visit your dad, that sounds productive since if he’s anything like you no shit Sherlock you feel like he loves your sister more, exactly the same as ds will. Because you do love dd much much more based on your actions and your rage - not a word from you IM TALKING, if I want to swear at an abusive adult I fucking well will and you do not get to argue with me, give me the keys, take your rage, your shit parenting, your anger, your favouritism of your daughter and your intolerance of your son, take all your fucking bullshit and go, GET THE FUCK OUT.

im not joking; this is basically every week or two. Its abuse and he’s escalating, he needs you to tell him to get his own fucking shit together and not come back to the house until he has and if he ever punches any thing or locks anyone up your next step is the police. Because it should be.

Your DH did escalate the situation but equally, your DS is being allowed to do something that is addictive and causes deregulation. (Who bought the equipment in the first place?)
You were right to calm your DS down but once everyone is calmer today, you need to work on a suitable consequence to the behaviour of both your DH and DS.
I'm not a gamer, and fortunately my children aren't showing any interest. I also wouldn't buy any of the equipment, so not creating that situation initially.
Personally, I think you need to completely remove the gaming equipment and possibly reduce phone usage as well. Your DS needs to find other ways to keep himself occupied, that don't give him that massive dopamine hit, particularly late at night.
If/when you return the gaming equipment, it's for very limited times each week.
Encourage your DS to meet friends in real life, either you or your DH engage in some specific activities with him that aren't gaming. A sport, other games, cook together etc
It's not easy but use this as a reset time for you all, which can only benefit the family as a whole.
(At a similar age, my parents were having to remove my brother from the family computer at random times of night, remove the cables if we went out for the day etc, as he'd become so addicted to being on it .)

DH is the arsehole. He told you it was the loading screen yet he stayed in the room till the round was finished so he’s lied to straight away. He needs to sort himself out, reminds me very much of my emotionally immature stepdad (in 35) but he would constantly escalated things and kick off over unreasonable stuff. DS is right he’s old enough to see the hypocrisy in DH behaviour if he’s on his phone a lot. DH needs to sort it out but it sounds like he need to see someone as it if this happens regularly as he says he obviously can’t control his emotions and is taking it out on DS.

Your son sounds like a normal 15 year old and engages his mates like all those his age do. My nephew is the same. They game online and meets mates online. It’s just the way they ‘hang out’ these days typically. Nephew is lovely, highly intelligent etc. His brain has not become mush. He has no behavioural issues. Spends a lot of time gaming.

Anyone told to stop doing anything part way through isn’t going to. If I’m reading a book mid page/chapter - I will finish it before bursting into action at the demand of someone else.

You DH is to blame entirely here. What vulgar behaviour towards a child. Maybe your DS didn’t respond well…but he is a child with. Developing brain and still learning. DH should know better. He should behave better.

Then DH can reach out for help it’s literally not an excuse to be an abusive prick

Relationship counselling with an abuser is not recommended. They use the counselling to continue the abuse, it just becomes another tool for them.

Rite of passage??? What are you going on about, a normal rite of passage is a father buying his son a pint at 18
Do you think this sort of interaction is normal between parents and children?
The husband is abusive and controlling towards the child. Gaming doesn’t make a teenager unable to function in the real world

I think that the family dynamic here is quite common once a boy hits puberty and enters teen years. There are just different ways people deal with that. It also used to be different in the past. I found the answers here interesting - showing how the parenting has changed over the last 20 years. I would never be allowed to stay up gaming till midnight when I was a teen. Nowadays, it seems that it's OK for teens to negotiate literally everything with their parents.
Yes, the husband overreacted and it's concerning that it's now a regular occurrence. It's worrying that OP and DH do not cooperate and have not created proper rules for their teenager regarding gaming and sleeping times. The whole conflict seems to be stemming from that. I would urge OP to find a common ground and introduce some rules before the situation escalates again and again. It's not OK for OP to disagree with DH every time - the teen knows that mummy will always be on his side and he will take advantage of that.
I know it's often very difficult for mum to say 'no' to her kids.
LTB is just such a common advice here, but I have noticed that we just have too many single mums here every week, who moan that they had left their marriage and now they cannot cope with their teen who has gone off the rails.
This kid tries to push the boundaries, which is commo behaviour, but you've got to manage this as a team and speak one voice.

You have two people acting the same way in the heat of the moment. But the difference is one is still developing their frontal lobe and one is meant to have a fully developed one by now.

I’ve said this on threads a few times before. One of the best things you can do as a parent is learn to apologise. Parents seem to think they are somehow exempt from saying sorry to their kids like it somehow relinquishes their power over their children. But it just teaches boys that it’s ok to scream and shout at people you love and have zero accountability and it teaches your daughter that it’s ok for men to scream and shout and it’s not ok for her to speak up when she sees something wrong. Your husband was in the wrong. He’s the adult. He needs to apologise to his son. So his son understands it isn’t ok to scream and shout regardless of the situation. And if you do loose control, it’s important to recognise that and take accountability for it. With no “but if you hadn’t..” there is no exception. Adults don’t scream and shout at children. Full stop. Would he have spoken to his mum like that, a friend? Colleague? I’m guessing no. He should love and respect his son more than any of those people. and you are saying this happens a couple of times a month.

If your son is doing well at school, does his chores, stays out of trouble, is respectful to you guys and has some kind of social life outside of his game then by all accounts he’s doing pretty well. He’s 15 and in the last couple of years of being a kid still. Just let him play his game and relax. If the issue was him constantly misbehaving or not leaving the house then I would say tell your husband to reduce his screen time too and find something they can both do together once a week. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is control. Your husband wants all the control. Wants to FEEL in control and your son is approaching adulthood and is starting to realise he can speak up for himself now and say “I’m finishing my game” rather than being a small quiet compliant little boy.

I hope and pray that this is the only red flag your husband has. My guess would be that he is in general controlling and in change and likes to make sure everyone abides by his rules. I hope I’m wrong though.

Ok. Calm down.

Several times a month is a pattern and it is a regular occurrence. Behaving like this once would be too often, but regularly, that's awfu.
Put the gaming aside for a minute because some people don't get it but if it wasn't gaming with your DH it would be something else. He's controlling, abusive and a bully. Regardless of his excuse for firing off, there is no excuse and it is completely unacceptable to treat a child this way.
You're coming at this the wrong way entirely. You're focusing on your son't gaming time but you should be focusing on your DH's behaviour. It sounds like your son works with the gaming restrictions (although I think they're a bit mean especially in the holidays). However, that's for you to decide. In the meantime your DS is being bullied by your DH and that will affect his mental health, probably already has. And he's already picking on another child now. Start protecting your kids properly. I'd tell your DH to get out. He's the problem here, not the kids.

Way too many posters focussing on the gaming. Perhaps they missed your update above.

Just look at his behaviour:
swears at you
slams doors
punched a wall
broke your property (note: not his property)
gives you the silent treatment

And does this about once a month or every 10 days

You are in an abusive relationship. So are your children.

First step - recognise that this is the truth. Don't minimise it or excuse him in your mind. He is abusive. It doesn't matter why, he just is.

Second step - recognise that your primary duty as a parent is to get your kids away from their abuser (and they are being abused, by having to live in the house with him)

So you ask him to leave the house and you file for divorce.
If he won't leave, consider taking the kids away somewhere, e.g. to your parents if that is possible.
If he escalates the violence, don't hesitate to call the police.

Hi OP. You are in such a difficult position. I can somewhat relate as my DH had huge blow ups like this, massive reactions disproportionate to what had happened. I asked myself at what point was enough actually enough, when he hit one of us? I sent him an NHS overview of emotional abuse (and in my case financial abuse too) via email, and in that email told him if things don’t get sorted I will pack up, take the kids and leave him. I gave him a timeframe of 2 weeks to see meaningful action. He saw his GP, went on an SSRI and started seeing a clinical psychologist (very important as they need to be highly trained in order to see through the BS). Things aren’t perfect but they’re miles better.

Do you have access to money so you can leave, even if just temporarily? I would be worried about how he’d escalate from here with the ultimatum.

Tbh im not clear why at 15 you police it so much. Id be telling DS he would lose free access if he doesnt do his chores/schoolwork/etc

But tbh he needs to be being taught how to regulate his time himself, to be responsible and enjoy his hobbies in balance. And he wont if he has an adult man screaming at him and escalating what seems a non issue over 45mins playing with a friend abroad.

Let father and son lock horns.. it's completely natural and healthy. If they are both forced to subdue there feelings the consequences will last a lifetime.

You DS isn't gaming excessively based on what you posted, and the bigger child here is DH. Absolutely set boundaries about parenting style now because that loss of control and over reaction is ridiculous and counter productive. As for undermining... well obviously that's what DH deserves so you are showing admirable restraint!

one is a dad, one is a child. Abuse is never healthy.

I don’t know why you don’t just set a specific time for gaming to end and make sure DS sticks to that time. You could even change your router settings so that the internet goes off at a certain time on certain specific devices. Automate it and the problem goes away.

But your DH needs to wind his neck in and chill out more.

It's not abuse.. it's the young pup challenging the Alpha. It's deeply primitive right of passage that just needs to be played out and will result in a lifelong father/son bond. Sure if it gets physical in this day and age then it's unacceptable but if it's just peacocking then it's far more healthy than letting the boy go unchallenged. Trust me I know alot about this subject and this is not opinion it is fact.