To want to tell my kids to fuck off

[allwrongnow]

Dd2(3) destroyed DD1(6)s Lego. Tried to put DD2 in a time out; of course she won’t stay so she’s in her room with me on one side of the door holding it closed while she screams the place down and DD1 follows me bellowing and ranting about the injustice of it so two kids screaming their heads off at me while I’m holding door closed.

I didn’t but I wanted to tell them both to fuck off. (I have never done this out loud but Jesus it’s tempting.)

Yes, I know I probably did it all wrong and no MNetters would have such chaos but that’s not my life I’m afraid.

The 3yo likely was trying to play with it too.
The smashing and destroying is because a 3yo doesn’t have the coordination to play with Lego yet.

To OP:

How about the play mobile things? They do make Lego like toys for younger children.

And maybe the identical item thing is a bad idea and causing the fights, have you tried here is your toy specially for you ? The 3yo seems to be thinking she is an extension of her sister instead of her own person.

I agree tbh, although I know we’re not coming at it from the same angle. You think it worked for yours, so I’m the problem. I’m telling you that to stop her going after her sister I have to wrestle the thing off her and physically stop her going after her. And sorry but it really isn’t always possible to skip around fondly after a balloon or do painting. Sometimes we do have to get up and out or whatever.

We like magna tiles in our house for this age group

There was a woman in Morrisons near me yesterday screaming at her kids and offering to sell them.
They did seem like little twats tbf.
Her mate appeared and seemed to sort things out.

Nothing makes a difference. It was recently her birthday, she had a house full of toys and kept trying to take her sisters little ping pong ball off her. It’s shit but it’s just what life looks like right now.

Get the 3yo some duplo she can play with.

Tell DD1 that's tough, if you will parade the lego then little sister will destroy it.

Do time in holding DD2 rather than shutting her away. Then when #2 is calm give DD1 attention

You’re doing great OP. You are in the trenches of parenting, I promise it gets better!! I had two at similar ages and was in hell. Get the 3 year old to say sorry and then do something nice for 6 year old “this is how we say sorry” kind of thing. There’s not a real right or wrong at this stage as you are doing your best and that’s all we can do.

If you have told your older daughter not to have things near her sister, then she ignores the advice and it gets broken, try turning it back on her and ask her what she has learned from this.
If she has to think about and articulate what she could have done differently, it might slowly start to sink in.
It's still tough though, I feel for you. Most of us have been through this sort of thing as well and not all solutions work for all children.

Ofcourse. I wasn’t meaning to do this today. I understand that you had to go out. On the days that you don’t have to, you should plan to do these things. The more you play with them, the more they will respect you, and listen to you, and do as they are told.

The time-out must be consistent. Over the years, you’ll see it naturally reducing as they get better and better at behaving themselves in and out of the house. The good thing about time-out facing the wall, it can be done everywhere and whenever necessary.

She has some. It isn’t linked to what she has. She just doesn’t want dd1 to have anything. If she had her way, dd1 would have nothing.

If I held her we’d end up fighting as she’d bite me and hit me and I’d have to hold her with so much force I would hurt her.

Thanks @Yogabearmous it definitely doesn’t feel like I’m doing great. Mostly I’m quite low about it.

@birdling its the same every time, she agrees that was silly then does it again and again and again. I really think she can’t process instructions very well.

Maybe try occupying your 3 year old and then your 5 year old’s Lego wouldn’t get destroyed 🤷‍♀️

I think you handled it OP! That’s the important thing. I was the older child who was constantly told to prioritise my younger siblings needs over mine. I’m now a chronic people pleaser. I would ask all the parents on this thread giving themselves gold stars for telling an older child not to use Lego or to accept a younger child’s behaviour to do a bit more thinking about the impact of this approach. When does it stop? When they are 5, 10, not the tricky teenage years surely, not when they are navigating early adulthood or a new family, maybe when they are 50?

And a heads up the golden children you create won’t be looking after you when you’re older. You have to hope the older ones have forgiven you enough to help.

That’s what I’d do, stop her before she gets to her sister and redirect her to her special Lego type toy. I’d also set up an inaccessible spot for the 5yo to do their Lego so you have plenty of time to catch 3yo trying to get to it. You could also say have 1 on 1 time with 3yo doing anything else while 5yo does !ego.

If you have a partner, try and tag team.

Absolutely, cant believe people disagreeing with OP here. Sactions are needed, its how you learn that if you cant be socially appropriate then you cant be with others for a period of time, its how humans function

This kind of sibling rivalry does happen. They eventually grow out of it. The book recommended upthread is really good. I had similar in that one child would sneak into his brother’s room to take toys and then helpfully discover them when brother started bellowing about his favourite toy being stolen. LOTR Legos was usually what it was. It’s more about how to de-escalate and put the children on a path to a good relationship. The tactics you are using now are escalating things and will make the entire phase last longer. Good luck

I put a strong baby guard between my downstairs rooms and if this happened separated them. The youngest would just scream but at least they could still see and hear me and I'd put some toys in the room they were in. I previously had tried the bedroom approach but they just let themselves out. I agree you can't just ignore the behaviour and doing something imperfect is better.

Most of us are disagreeing with time out being shutting a 3yo in a room and holding the door closed while they are screaming, crying and extremely distressed.

No one is disagreeing with consequences or rules. It is more the punishment is overly harsh and won’t work to improve behaviour.

I also think reasoning and time outs can have limited effect on very small kids, the best thing for me when mine were little was spotting trouble brewing and then distracting. What were you doing at the time? "ooh, DD2, can you come and help mummy xyz?", "can you find random thing for me?". We had some invisible flying mini elephants that I would narrate the antics of, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

It doesn’t really make a difference as nothing works. Except properly losing it which I’ve just done over a snack, where she was trying to take her sisters food. She’s silent now.

Someone from the HV team is coming out next week but I doubt it will help, it’ll just be more of the usual ‘explain to her calmly that she can’t have her sisters toy.’

I really hate her. I know that’s awful but I do.

You’re saying you hate her. She may well be picking up on that.

If you’re concerned DD1 isn’t developing as she should, have you considered DD2 might also be struggling that way? Worth a chat with nursery if she goes and the GP. Three year olds can be awful but her behaviour sounds a bit extreme. YANBU to be struggling in these circumstances.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but is their Dad around? Do you have a granny or similar who can take one out while you entertain the other? Dealing with them both on your own must be so tough, no wonder you’re at the end of your tether.

If you still have a children’s centre near you I’d contact them for advice, and contact Home Start who can offer support. Great idea that you’re seeing the health visitor, but I’d talk to GP and nursery/pre school if she goes to one.

I don’t think I’d have had dc2 within destroying distance of dc1’s lego at that age. It’s not being soft, it’s just practical.

OP I’ve read your updates and it goes to quite a worrying place. Im glad you’ve got the HV coming as I think the overall approach you’re taking isn’t working and also that your mental state isn’t great.

Parenting is hard but we don’t want to end up hating our kids. And the going nuclear clearly isn’t working as she acts up again later on.

I would listen to the HV advice as you might be missing a nuance in the “speak to her nicely”. And pps have suggested some more subtle tactics, like demonstratively comforting her sister when something like this happens.

Praise for good behaviour always outweighs punishment for bad imo.

Properly losing it isn’t working. The silence is terror.

Over time losing it, which I presume you are at the stage of shouting and snapping, as well as you have said locking a crying child away for a certain time and physically wrestling things out of her hands, will not work as the child becomes numbed to it. You will then properly lose it in ways that escalate- a slap on the wrist, a shove, a longer shouting session that includes very hurtful language- I can see you almost wanted to yell fuck off at them today. If you don’t step it down and make a pact to stay calm you will be yelling fuck off pretty soon.

Your children will start copying you, 5yo already is, as they will model that properly losing your temper is how yin handle any kind of conflict or aggravation.

I don’t know how your childhood was, it is likely you are trying your best and it’s better than what you had at the same age but this latest post has me seriously worried about you and your children. Even if the HV is shit, and most are, please please insist on some kind of counselling and parent support for you. You need real practical help.

Ultimately, you need to take the much harder path of staying calm and using the advice given in this thread. It does work, it just isn’t the instant result that you get by intimidating your child into silent terror through losing your temper.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing but how, if one child is sitting on the floor with it, do you just lock the other kid out of the room or something? This is why I already know any advice will not work; it assumes the kids will follow instructions. If they just ignore you it’s pointless.

And I don’t really hate her but I do hate her behaviour and what it’s done to me. I am a tense ball of stress and I’m always waiting for what’s going to happen next.

Not much advice but just wanted to say I feel you! I reached my limit countless of times.

Its all right, it was a shit moment. They happen. Its hard work refereeing between a 3 year age gap. You dealt with it best you could. You're human and allowed your own emotions. Forgive yourself and them and move on.