To want to tell my kids to fuck off

[allwrongnow]

Dd2(3) destroyed DD1(6)s Lego. Tried to put DD2 in a time out; of course she won’t stay so she’s in her room with me on one side of the door holding it closed while she screams the place down and DD1 follows me bellowing and ranting about the injustice of it so two kids screaming their heads off at me while I’m holding door closed.

I didn’t but I wanted to tell them both to fuck off. (I have never done this out loud but Jesus it’s tempting.)

Yes, I know I probably did it all wrong and no MNetters would have such chaos but that’s not my life I’m afraid.

Honestly get the IPads. At least you know you have them when you need a few hours peace over the summer.
Nothing wrong with having a tea/coffee whilst they chill for a bit on screens.
As long as they are doing the park/messy play/sports etc the rest of the time do whatever you need to do to stay sane.

A 3 year old has no impulse control and it's completely development appropriate behaviour to do things like this. Doesn't make it "ok" for the sibling but it's unfair to expect a 3 year old to just "know" how to behave or even remember 100% of the time if it's something we have taught before.

Dr Vanessa Lapointe has a brilliant account on Instagram about meeting kids where they are developmentally and incorporating age effective parenting.

With all that in mind, it's still perfectly reasonable to want to tell your kids to fuck off but try not to 😉

I feel your pain, I also want to tell my kids to fuck off sometimes but simply can’t,
we are a very active family and constantly outdoors and it still doesn’t work all the time, sometimes they are just a-holes! But aren’t we all! 😂

Referring to your child as 'slow' is bloody horrible.

My children are grown up but I've been there. It's awful I have felt the same at times and approached it the same way you did but I wished I hadn't because it always made things worse, escalated the issue made the destroying child feel even more resentful and likely to destroy her sisters models even more.
What I foune worked was to tell dd1 off so she knows what she did was wrong ask her how she would feel if dd1 destroyed something she had been building for a long time then leave her but help dd2 build her model again. And if you can get dd1 to help.,
But also try to understand what triggered the situation. Is dd2 feeling jealous, frustrated because she can't make models like her sister. When lego is out can you play with them too. Forget the house work.
Then when things have calmed down go out somewhere. Its always better to get out of the house.

It will pass. Three is a terrible age. This is why I went back to work and my kids were either in nursery or holiday clubs for good chunks of the summer holidays!

Agree with baby gates or maybe bring a bit more savvy with when you get the Lego out- does the 3 yr old nap? Or go to bed early? Or go to nursery? Could Lego be reserved for those times?

Also you need to keep reinforcing to your older child that if she will parade stuff in front of her sister then it will not end well.

I found that 1/2/3 magic worked for mine because it was really clear and immediate.

In extremis pay for some childminding for your youngest a few times a week and take your eldest to the library or something.

This is one approach but I found that time out worked quite well with mine as long as it wasn't used for every last thing. I dont see how rewarding dd2 by allowing her to then play with the lego would help.

People who are saying time outs are outdated, well I'm not so sure they are. They do work but I agree putting her in a bedroom and holding the door with her screaming isn't going to help.

I'd find a corner with a chair there or a bottom stair. Get her to sit there with a timer on. Calmly explain to her why she is sitting there and to stay there until the timer goes off. If she gets up just calmly put her back on and repeat ad finium until she gets it. Ask the 6 year to stay in another room or she will also get a time out if she doesn't listen to you.

Three is old enough to learn to not destroy someone's items. And all these saying she won't learn, well you are just teaching them they can do what they want without consequences.

Nobody has to hit, scream or shout. But firm and consistent consequences are the way.

You have to keep following them through.

If they start when they are out? Take them home or give them a time out wherever you are. But they have to be told.

No wonder there are so many feral kids who don't listen.

Of course a 3 year old has impulse control, they're not a baby. Imperfect impulse control perhaps but it is definitely there to be developed.

Hard agree!

I'm having flashbacks. Mine were feral little buggers in the holidays (and not much better at other times). Two of them are accountants now...

Do whatever you need to do to get through the day, OP. There will always be people telling you you're wrong whatever you do. I used to shove my head out of the window and just scream (we lived very very rurally, thankfully). The kids got over it before I did.

Thanks. As we can see there’s a definite dissent of opinion with some seeing it as cruel and wrong that dd2 gets a time out and others seeing it as cruel and wrong that DD1s things are destroyed.

dd2 is … well, it doesn’t matter how much love and attention she gets, she just obsessively targets dd1, who can’t have anything at all because dd2 just takes it off her and screams.

@MyIcyHeart I’m not saying it to be horrible, I do sometimes think she’s a bit behind developmentally. For example, she runs off. It doesn’t matter how many times she’s told what to do, how dangerous it is, she still does it, same with ‘don’t show dd2 your new toy as she’ll take it off you.’ I will come back from a party with dd1 and clearly tell her to go and put the party bag straight in her room and she’ll literally go and show dd2, leading to her trying to snatch it and a meltdown. And it’s difficult to be sympathetic then tbh.

When you find the answer to siblings not bickering and arguing please PM me. Mine still do it now at 10&14.

In all honesty you know putting the youngest in her room and holding the door shut isn’t the answer but creating that barrier for a few minutes is stopping you from losing your absolute marbels.

Putting them in the garden at 08:30 will just piss off the neighbours.

Just chalk it up to a shit morning. The only advice I can give is don’t keep it going all day, once the deed is done and you’ve had WW3 move on and try and have a nice day.

Don’t worry tho, I’d say majority of household descend into complete barbaric behaviour several times a day in the holidays! Fair few ‘perfect parents and children’ on mumsnet, they must live outside 😂

It’s ok OP, I’ve been there. They can be shitheads, can’t they? Deep breaths and good luck! We’re all doing the best we can.

This is what I should of wrote 😂😂

Thing with the garden thing is it doesn’t even work. They don’t suddenly stop being arseholes outside. I get that sometimes they are easier to manage out of the house, but the garden doesn’t really count in that logic and the logistics of getting everyone out - getting dressed and sun hats and sun cream is hard work in itself.

I am just waiting for DD2 to be old enough for holiday camp and then I’m going to have them do alternate days in the summer, I’m not joking.

You sound exhausted, and everything is amplified when patience tanks are low.
The day hasn’t started well, but I’d put the Lego away and get breakfast on the go.
Your DC will pick up on your mood and although they have caused it - it won’t help. All of you sound fizzed up - very easy to get to that if you are tired. I’ve been there.
If the usual things aren’t working….can you find the energy to get them out to somewhere with animals? I always found that anything like that always distracted and diffused especially if the animal could be held.

OP did you calmly remind them both of the rules before you got the Lego out? If not, do that next time.

with my two (plus any cousins that joined us), the rule was “if you can’t play with a toy nicely together then you don’t play with it at all”. At three years old they understood the rule. Any argument I would calmly take the toy and put it out of reach.

The three year old screams because it works. Walk away and pretend to feel calm. Channel your best Julie Andrews feelings. It will probably take a few weeks to get the message across.

Good luck

@allwrongnow I agree with time-out, a minute for every year of their age. You should learn to facilitate this in the corner of a room or simply facing a wall near where the incident happened. If both kids didn’t follow your rules (like in this case), both get time-out. I do not agree with locking them in the room whilst screaming, this isn’t time-out.

Show them who is boss by being firm not shouty. Once time-out is finished, tell them you expect an apology and then hug it out. Then move-on to having fun with both kids.

I found the best, and very cheap, way to entertain both kids and for them to play happily together and with me, was to simply blow up a few few balloons and play ‘keepy-uppy’, the balloon can’t touch the floor. Have two balloons going at once and make sure the two kids can’t cross over to each others’ sides so everyone gets a hit of the balloon.

I also found, just sitting with them both at the table and painting was fun for everyone and also baking cookies using the boxed ingredients where both kids have to follow the instructions (a box each works best).

Find ways to incorporate both kids equally and so there’s no reason for them to fight over anything and they soon learn to be in the same space together.

@Fortnightly we passed many an hour with a balloon doing keepy uppy game and pating to each other especially in the winter, wonder if DD 23 wants to play it today. Thanks for the reminder!

There’s no chance of her standing against a wall. I’d have to physically pin her there.

I think some posters are missing the fact it was half eight in the morning. Sorry but no, one child should be allowed to get some Lego out without me having to prance around making cookies and painting. (And they are at a ballet lesson now which I wouldn’t have had time to take them to if I was getting paints out and making cookies.)

theyd just fight over the paints anyway!

Wholeheartedly disagree. Of course a 3 year old knows not to smash another child’s Lego. Yes they are still learning and won’t get it right all of the time. But they do know and there should be consequences.

I have raised 3, 2 of which are highly strung. But they all understood at this age that you shouldn’t destroy things.

I have had 18 month/ 2 year olds do thing like draw on walls, but I absolutely expect a 3 year old to know that’s not ok. Just like they know not to smash another’s toy.

Agree. OP you can’t just tell a 5yo don’t let your sister near your stuff or put it away where she can’t reach it. You have to set up how she does it and show her how to do it. You also have to guard dog to keep the 3yo away by playing with them or monitoring them so you can prevent them from snatching the stuff in a moment of distraction.

Okay. Well you’re destined for this to continue then.

My advice is based on experience. And because I did these things, my children listened and took part peacefully. I was a fun, firm and fair parent. It worked. Up to you if you choose to ignore my advice though. My children are 18 and 15 now and have a very calm household. Good luck.

Have you watched super nanny? Using a time out spot is initially relentless and as a parent you really have to be resolute. However it does work.

eventually, a time out when it works is just a few minutes reflection time. But the first time is really hard work.