to think some people on here have no idea what 16-18 year olds are actually like?

[Twile]

I’ve noticed that some posters on here seem to have no idea what parenting an older teenager is actually like.

Someone will post about their 16-18 year old being completely out of control - staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

Without fail, there are replies saying things like:

“Just stop them going.”
“Take their phone off them.”
“Ground them.”
“You’re the parent - just say no.”
“I’d never allow that”

It makes me wonder whether these people have actually parented an older teen.

A 16-18-year-old is not the same as a 10-year-old. They’re often physically bigger than you, legally have increasing autonomy, can leave the house if they choose, earn their own money and in many cases simply refuse to comply. You can’t physically force them to stay indoors, attend college, end a relationship or make sensible choices. And nor should you.

Of course boundaries still matter, and parenting doesn’t stop at 16. But the strategies change. You’re often relying on influence rather than control, and sometimes you’re choosing the least bad option rather than the ideal one.

No, they don't have any idea. I had zero idea until I had teenagers myself. 2 of them were ok, but 2 had me ready to commit myself to the nearest insane asylum. And by the time they reach that age, it's WAY too late to change things because like you say--they are often physically stronger than you are.

@Twile just wanted to say I’ve enjoyed your last few posts.
They are well built arguments which really unusual for this site.

Thank you

Maybe is the extent of the “very brightness” and their intrinsic motivation to go to uni?

My DD had awful school refusal for a year, not ND but lots of teen issues all at once. She didn’t go to Oxford (Aus) but got into a degree you need to be in the top 1% of the country for. She’s also doing physics - 😀 to the subsequent poster.

she’s more than very bright, I think. Always very good at maths. When she was 2 she could count to 100 then quickly beyond that - she could tell the time on an analogue clock from 3 years.

I think all of that contributed to her teen stuff - big shifts in social groups from the “sporty” groups to the “smart” groups but also still wanting to be popular. She also gave up a competitive sport, struggled with skin, hated her braces. It was a lot all at once.

I also think this.

Yes we get it, you’re perfect and your parents are perfect. Well done. Anyone who takes drugs must have terrible parents. Yep noted.

Could not agree more with everything Op has said. If you mention your child has smoked weed you’ll get numerous posters suggesting you march them down the police station and get the local Bobby to have a stern word. I’ve had this advice from so many people. I live in London, we’re talking about the Met Police, you’re asking me to actively get my teenager a criminal record. It’s easy to be smug if you’ve put a lot of effort into parenting and you end up with an amazing, well behaved, high achieving delight of a child, but some of us have put our heart and souls into it and end up with one that does drink, vape, take drugs, escape in the night, steal things, refuse school. I have one of each so I know it’a not down to parenting as they are 21 months apart in age and have been parented identically.

See when I was a teenager university wasn't really a thing for most of us. Many people didn't even do A levels ( did mine in evening classes while working in daytime) . I suspect the percentage of kids in newham going to uni in 81988/89 was pretty small. But we did have jobs although parents definitely didn't have money for " extra curriculars"

I had a paper round from 13 , saved up half the wages to buy a 2nd hand bike from a local shop that I paid towards each week. When the bike was paid for I could do 2 rounds and make more money

Wasn't past buying a " single" cigarette from under the counter in a shop near school, and was regularly going in pubs with friends / workmates at 17.

the other issue when you have an older teen is that they collude with their friends and those friendships start to be a important to them as family are
They:
cover for each other
phone taken away no problem a phone will be supplied
issue happens they go all Italian Mafia Omertà 🙄

list goes on … but the flip side is they are supporting each other in the tricky transition from child to adult

much of the conflict is about your child not thinking you have as a parent the right to know everything and at times you just have to accept that and hope for the best

😂😂

People are allowed to have their own opinions, whether they have experienced something or not. Obviously, like everything in life, the best advice is from people who are or have the same experience. I have 5 dc. Have 2 boys 29 and 26 yrs old and a set of 3 identical triplets. Generally l would only advice if l have experienced what people seek advice about, but it also can be good just to get advice from everyone, who has taken the time to offer any advice. I know ow someone who is a marriage guidance counsellor, but has never been married, or live with anyone...

Yes indeed.

I agree. A child brought up with good, caring guidance, plenty of attention and love, rarely goes off the rails. My son is 16 and has never ever given us a headache, and his many friends are great, very well-behaved kids. Many times, parents who have been self-absorbed, neglectful or have imposed no boundaries or education, later seem surprised their child does not obey/ goes wild in their teenage years. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but more often than not, upbringing reflects on teenage behaviour.

But then, parents who have been less-than-caring do not like to hear this, so attack me if you will.

It's quite annoying. My best mate has very strong opinions about kids (some from her DM) - small children shouldn't be allowed to tantrum or be picky eaters, Terry cloth nappies only because they're so easy, no touching of plastic at all. No kids obv.

OP I completely agree with you.

All this 'if you parent them right beforehand, they won't go off the rails when older' is really naive in my book. Yes you can greatly reduce the chances of it happening by being loving, supportive, consistent and firm throughout childhood. Yes there are ways of approaching older kids that make them more likely to listen. But nothing is guaranteed. There is so much here that parents can't control (external influences in person and online; mental health; the quirks of personality). Perhaps we also need some compassion for parents, who might not find it easy to be eternally consistent etc depending on their own mental health and on the financial stability, safety and consistency of their own lives. No one is a parenting robot.

I also think that whilst this thread is understandably focused on externalised 'acting out' - staying out all night, drug-taking, swearing etc - a lot of teenagers do a more internalised version whereby they are withdrawing emotionally, not communicating, perhaps spending way too long online, not pulling their weight / attending to responsibilities, self-neglecting in some way etc. In some ways this is just as hard to deal with I reckon. It might not come with the same risks and moments of horrible adrenaline but it is soul-sapping for parents and leads to the same dilemma: how do I get my teenager to do what I think would be best for them?

My own upbringing was not problem-free but was also relatively loving and stable. Yet as a teen I ended up doing the internalised thing (totally withdrawing from family life, refusing to wash, quiet-quitting on chores, over-eating); one of my siblings did the externalised thing of bunking off sixth form, engaging in loads of risky activities, refusing to follow any demand and sometimes becoming physically intimidating to my parents (significant mental health challenges were also at play); my other two siblings did everything 'by the book' and were a parent's dream of compliance and loveliness (although one of them is struggling a lot with their mental health in adulthood and thinks our upbringing sowed the seeds for this so clearly calm on the surface did not mean that everything was fine).

(Luckily as siblings we've always been close and love and support one another so there is that! I suspect sibling dynamics are an under-appreciated aspect of what influences the wellbeing of kids. We also all have decent relationships with our parents now. So perhaps in terms of the long game of raising decent kind hard-working people, the years 16-18 might not be a good indicator of what is to come.)

My parents weren't crap parents. Never abusive in any way. Made time to listen to us. Provided a stable lovely home. Supported our education and hobbies. Were former and stricter than the parents of most of our peers when we were young (by far!) so we knew where we stood but didn't feel too oppressive because they at least explained the reasons for their rules and allowed some renegotiation as we got older. They weren't perfect parents (who is?) but were essentially pretty lovely. It guaranteed nothing.

I’m not going to “attack you”, I’m going to say you’re taking nonsense. Going off the rails can mean all sorts of things, teenagers are programmed to push boundaries and experiment. They have a huge number of people and influences in their lives that parents can’t control. I’ve met many parents who have experienced what we have and they were all without exception attentive,caring, loving parents who gave good guidance, a supportive education and boundaries. It really can happen to anyone. I think ND in the mix in any of its forms and trauma can be big flashpoints and additional pressures during teenage years. Luck can also play its part.

It’s a form of magical thinking. If I do xyz then my teen will be a perfect Peter.

Both mine are “good” but I have seen equally “good” parents - friends of ours - whose teens have gone off the rails. They have been exemplary parents and their other child is absolutely fine.

Incorrect. Oxbridge aside,which does not suit the vast majority of young people anyway.

We’re supported by a charity who has repeatedly told us the vast majority of teens in families they work with do get their shit together. We were told this by several professionals repeatedly too. In addition to this several young people of parents I have cried and gnashed teeth with have gone on to uni, some very good Russel group unis ( that is what Access courses are for)or found their right path and are doing very well.

The brain in still developing until 25 and in my personal experience in the early 20s not long after the teenage years end they start to look around and realise if they want a good life it’s down to them. Which is why it’s important that we as parents are still there to travel alongside and support them to move forward.

I’m sorry I can’t just sit and read posts writing kids off as teenagers, blaming parents most of whom are good loving parents who are on their knees battling for their kids. Life is difficult, it’s hugely difficult to parent in this modern world but you can ride it and most will come out the other side stronger( parents and kids). Sometimes we were never meant to be on the path we thought we were on and that’s ok. The right and different path can be hugely better.

Amen to that!!
I have a fresh 18 year old who thinks he knows everything and 2 15yr olds following suit, it’s hard bloody work and incredibly stressful at times.

I felt like people stop talking about parenting older teens! You get the newborn chats, the terrible twos, threenagers, preteen woes and puberty, then the turning 13 stress and then suddenly everyone stops talking about how hard it is!
you push too hard, you can end up pushing them away, they hide more, they’re influenced by friends more, they try more risky things 😫 and you also have to let them make mistakes even if you can see what’s gonna go wrong!!
sometimes you get a good conversation but it’s an awful transition going from steering the car to being a passenger in their lives 🥺 I’m not sure anything really prepares you for that. All the while remembering what you got up to at their age as well 😆

Do they answer why sone teens are angels and their siblings run wild tgen with the same parents and upbringng.

I know a set of twins this apples to do can't even say different times/ situations

I agree. It’s called having a superiority complex. If not that it’s plain ignorance.

This thread is a classic example of why people stop talking about this phase! I’ve felt so desperate and so alone at times and I’ve reached out for help on mumsnet and just been met with smug comments from people who only come along to say how great their own teens are and to share their top tips on their own awesome parenting before passing judgment on ALL parents of challenging children and assuming they are all just feckless. Or you get replies from people with no experience of the problem which always begin with the words; “can’t you just…” (ground them, turn off the router, stop their pocket money, MAKE them..etc etc) as if you haven’t already tried absolutely everything and you are at your wits end. I’ve stopped asking for advice on mumsnet on this topic I’ve even stopped talking to my friends in real life about it. If you haven’t experienced it you can’t relate or even imagine it and it’s a lonely place to be.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

I mean, I know the answer, I have two children with totally different personalities and attitudes to risk/excitement/etc. but how do parents who think it's all about them square that?
Do they assume that these people must be bad parents who just got lucky with some of their children?

There was a good long-running thread about teens with different issues that I used to dip into. Very non-judgemental. Not sure if there is one running at the moment.

And as I already said my teens have their own mind and we do disagree, maybe read what I actually said before you make things up

What did I make up?