India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

Ive travelled all over India with my partner and gone out on my own in different places whilst there..perhaps ive been lucky as never experienced sexual harassment at all.as ive got older have been approached by families wanting to take a picture with" auntie " me..even joined in doing the bangra with a wedding party ( all male ) waiting for the bridegroom to arrive on his horse..

Yes, I'm sure that poster goes out groping and assaulting women on the regular./s

There are two separate issues here. One is the crimes men persistently commit against us all over the world. The other is knowing how to improve our chances of staying safe. Anyone on this thread considering a visit to India should give some thought to what they plan to wear - not because it would be their fault if they were wearing short shorts and got assaulted, because it wouldn't, but to maximize their chances of enjoying the trip.

Morocco was the worst travel experience of my life - groped, harassed, hissed at, stared at, followed and so on.

I ended up staying in the hotel for most of it. It was simply not worth the ordeal.

I had no faith in any of the men, or institutions which were run by men (eg- police).

Dreadful men.

As I said, each to their own.

I had this a lot in Eygpt and I was only in my late teens, tons of women coming up and asking for me to have my picture with them!!

Violence against women in India is a huge issue. It has nothing to do with clothes.

Nice bit of victim blaming there 🙄

I wasn’t born in the UK, I came as a small child. I love my language, some of the food, and above all the music. But I regularly thank my lucky stars that 1. my family fled my birth country and 2. We ended up in Britain. I also am extremely grateful that once in the UK, my family drifted from the religion I was born into, and eschewed most of our cultural norms.

So many in this country have so little understanding of how unpleasant life, particularly the life of a woman, is other parts of the world. As I said, I’m proud of so much of my culture. But there is really no point in sugar coating the reality of it. Women are viewed and understood in a truly evil way.

I have never been to India, but so much of the country fascinates me. Many years ago, I once was fairly non-seriously mulling the idea of going with a female work colleague. We had an Indian man and a Pakistani man on our team who overheard. Both of them were incredulous about the idea that we would go, and told us in no uncertain terms that it was a dangerous idea. I felt quite stupid, as with my cultural background I really shouldn’t have had to be told that. So perhaps none of us are immune to naivety.

When we went, people (not just men, but women and children) were very interested in us, especially in more rural areas. I would say I never felt unsafe, but we went as part of a tour so were with a local guide and a big group at all times. I’m not sure I’d go on my own!

Exactly, I find this bizarre on every thread where this is discussed. Do you leave your door unlocked? Of course not because it lowers the risk of being broken into.

Do you walk around staring into your phone? No of course not because it raises the risk of someone snatching your bag or attacking you

Do you leave your car unlocked with valuables on display?

I can tell you it doesn't.

I was flashed on my way up to the Alhambra in Spain, I had an old man put his arm around he on a Spanish train, I was asked for a blow job by a French man driving a car in Blois, France, I had a man take a shower with the door open behind me while I cleaned my teeth at a campsite in France.

I had no trouble in Nepal, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, Morocco or Egypt (had my husband at the last two though)

I did think a shopkeeper in Madaba, Jordan was trying to persuade me to have sex with him when he kept pointing to his jeans zip and then pointing round the back to his bum - he was actually just trying to tell me I was walking around with my skirt completely unzipped at the back.

The are vile men and good men everywhere.

Is it like that there too? How depressing I would like to go.

@LondonLass40 I wouldn't go to India and I don't think it's at all fair to compare it to London

I have been told that having a man with you in India and various other places isn't any help. It's just not safe.

Here's just one of many examples of horrific sexual crimes in India. Bet this woman was wearing a sari or salwar kameez

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/baby-thrown-to-death-in-latest-rape-case-to-shock-india/a-39126632

When younger I always really wanted to go to India but now I know more about their mysogynistic values I just couldn't bring myself to.

My experience too. I spent a year travelling in India in the early 2000's and found that people are sweet and gentle in the South. Conversely the North was rough, lots of staring men, but the only Eve teasing (street groping) I experienced was a lad who dared to touch my boob with his elbow, en passant - pathetic really but it was nonetheless deliberate so I tore him off a strip more out of obligation to the ladies he'd encounter going forward than actually being offended myself. I habitually went off in a very loud plummy voice at any men who got too close anyway - they often looked terrified.

I met a Japanese girl in the North who was having a much worse time of it so I took her under my wing and we travelled together thenceforth. I did have to go into battle for her a few times. The riskiest time vis potential rape was a gang of lads at some crappy spot with a building in the middle of a filthy lake (we couldn't even cross to the building) and no one else around. I had to punch one of them to get us out of there.

Then I actually got poisoned by a horrible bloke who was targeting Japanese women at a guesthouse the Japanese equivalent of Lonely Planet recommended. The nasty pig had learnt to speak Japanese, was targeting the girls staying there and had ingratiated himself with the staff, so despite not actually being employed by the place he was allowed to behave as if he worked there.

Japanese girls are raised to be extremely subordinate and he was very pushy and manipulative, setting my friend up for a two day trip with him to a temple with sexualised sculptures adorning it, despite her very clearly not wanting to go she made uncomfortable noises rather than being direct. So I asked her if she wanted me to step in for her and tell him no on her behalf and did precisely that. In return he decided to fetch our drinks from the kitchen instead of waiting for the waiter and he stuck something nasty in my mango lassi that made me terribly ill.

There were more places I had planned to go further North but instead I ended up spending a couple of weeks recovering then decided to get the hell out. Never been back.

I've travelled extensively alone in Asia, including India, as well as places like Morocco and Egypt. I've never had an issue beyond staring and the occasional cat-call, with the exception of Thailand where someone tried to steal from my bag. In fact, the only time I've been border-line assaulted (a man grabbed my face in a bar) was in Belgium.

I'm absolutely not saying the issues listed above don't happen though and it's not OK when it does. But they are very different countries with sometimes very different cultures that we don't always take account of when travelling there. As an example, the photos/selfies - I was taken very much by surprise with that but my guide explained that they usually just want a picture because you look different. It's just not what Brits are used to! But to say it's not safe to go there at all, women don't go out without chaperones, that all women are treated like second class citizens is simply not true. I encountered problems in India and was really touched by the kindness of complete strangers - males - who tried to help and definitely weren't taking advantage.

It makes absolutely no difference what you wear.

I'd heard about this happening before we went to India. I was expecting a lot of hassle being fair but I didn't have any trouble anywhere.

I wouldn't have gone out on my own as I know it does happen based on all of the warnings, but no-one bothered me while my husband was with me. The taxi driver did warn me not to go out alone during Holi and said it wasn't safe but I'd already heard about that.

We did get asked for photos a lot, but they were mostly families with children and they were also asking a man well into his sixties so I think it's just fair haired white people in general that are a novelty.

The only thing I found exhausting in India was the constant hassle from people wanting you to spend money and the overwhelming amount of people and vehicles.

It’s not moronic. What a shitty nasty victim blaming thing to say.
@LondonLass40 similar happened to me in India and turkey 20 odd years ago. Not just alone but in front of my partner at the time too, and more recently in Egypt to someone I know and to me in Greece last year.
its horrible and I don’t know why it’s so accepted, especially in countries that rely heavily on the tourist industry, you’d think tourism ombudsman or whatever they are would start laying down some serious boundaries

My experience of spending several months backpacking alone in India is that when in even very modest western clothes, I was groped. I then went to a shop and bought what local women were wearing (salwar) and made sure I wore that style of clothing correctly. After that, people still stared, but nobody put their hands on me.

But of course, we should be safe whatever we wear. I found my time there fascinating but psychologically exhausting, and have never wanted to go back. Sorry you had this experience OP, at least it was you and not your DD.

There's very little respect for women, thats why so many are subject to violence, rape and gang rape.

I went on a music trip to India with my school. I was 16 or 17 at the time. At one point we stopped off at Dakar airport and I was accosted by an older man who was around my dad’s age. He’d worked at the airport and he went out of his way to separate me from the rest of the group. I remember feeling really frightened at the time. There is no way on gods earth I would ever let my daughter go on a school trip to somewhere like that. It’s not safe.

I think we are kidding ourselves that this doesn't happen here ..I've certainly been groped in pubs, weird contact in swimming pools etc.

https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/appeals/image-released-after-woman-sexually-assaulted--liverpool/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzr58xy0ro

Easy to find loads more

Quite!! And I would worry (as a white western woman) wearing a sari, because some could take it as cultural appropriation or me wearing ot generally offend people. I don't think it would be offensive, but I daren't do anything to offend in this regard.

Far better to just wear western clothes that cover what is deemed necessary in the culture you're visiting.