India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

I went as part of an all female organised trip with girlguiding last year including older teens. We had a male guide with us in the cities inc New Delhi, Taj Mahal and Red Fort and covered up, often in uniform. We tended to wear linen trousers and t shirt. We didn’t experience any sexual harassment or touching but did experience people wanting to take photos of us.
We spent a week at the world guiding centre which felt like a safe bubble and we were ok to walk around in small groups in the local area.
I’d definitely go back. If I was a lone female I wouldn’t sightsee alone I’d join an organised group.

Sounds awful. I didn’t experience anything untoward in India and I went out alone a few times (I cope better with travel than dh so he gets more tired in afternoons). I think you may have just been unlucky as there’s bad people in many places though the big difference is there’s no personal space there so brushing against you isn’t intentional, it’s just very crowded. That said my tour guide kept saying I shouldn’t go out alone and I should call him (private tour) but I ignored

Why do you think it’s AI written?

Lucky you 🙄

What would happen if you grabbed their balls?

I spent 6 months there. Lost count of all the times I was touched. They tend to be quite sly about it, pretending it was an accident. Other places I’ve been they were more openly doing it

This is mental, I thought Morocco might have been different because everyone seems to go there all the time. I know a very beautiful colleague who went there recently and loved it. She did go to a luxury resort though so maybe that helps.

Sadly I have to agree, having been to several places in India and North Africa travelling with a male.

I got so much hassle there, hardly any hassle in most of the other places I've been.

Ive never felt so unsafe, was literally desperate to get home.

Yes, was going to say this too. I live part of the time in London and no, it doesn’t happen there. It happened to me in China and in Indonesia some years ago. It has happened to friends in Morocco. It has never happened to me in the UK or even in Europe, where most men may try it on but bugger off when you tell them to. I appreciate that young women may have had different experiences at 2am in nightclubs, but I have never felt I cannot take my children out alone in the UK to markets or been bothered by people wanting selfies.

You were violated and your husband should have ensured that he accompanied you everywhere and he should have shooed these invasive men away when you needed help.

Not one person on this thread has said this doesnt happen here.

But we have legal protection, we have a social and cultural expectation that people dont behave like this, we have laws that set women as equals. The comparison is simply not there

We have a way to go in the execution of all of those protections but the constant claim that we have exactly the same experiences as Indian or ME women is laughable, its ridiculous. Whats the reason for claiming this?

India isn’t safe for women. Not just western women. Native women have an awful time with misogyny rape and violence.
there was a high profile case of a student gang raped on a bus recently, Indian women staged lots of protests and calls for change. I wonder has anything changed at all.

I am so sorry this happened to you.

I think that anyone who experiences anything like this could write to our government and the country's government, and recommend that there is an official warning for all women travelling to certain countries. Maybe if the government though that this would affect their tourism industry, they might try harder to stop men abusing all women in their country.

I was teaching in India for a year in the late 1970s and did wear a sari for most of that time. But had pretty much the same experience. Men openly touching their crotch and saying possibly the only English phrases they knew: "Hello. Are you married?" or similar. Another female teacher and I used to go into Delhi (we taught in a village) on our days off to go swimming at one of the tourist hotels. We had to leave the cheaper hotel we were using because men would congregate at the fence surrounding the pool, openly masturbating as they watched us. We ended up having to pay more at a 5* hotel that had proper walls and security guards by the pool.

I had a similar experience in Egypt when I was in my 20s.

I went to New Delhi alone on a work trip 15 years ago. Even back then my company assigned me a chaperone/driver at all times when I wasn’t in the office or my hotel.

With the exception of the one weekend I had during my 2 week trip where I joined an organised day trip to the red fort and tai mahal. 2 of the most amazing things I have ever seen, but my god I was absolutely mobbed by men and kids (in rags) touching my hair and body, crying out and jostling me, it was v scary stuff.

I was treated with absolute privilege while I was there. My heart goes out to the Indian women and girls living in this environment without the protections afforded to me 😞

All of these places depend on you staying in tourist focused areas. Step off the beaten track and the ordinary men feel free to behave as though women are property.

I wasn't touched inappropriately by anyone in India but I did find the scamming on another level - not just overcharging as I'd expected, it was really devious lies to trick us. We were backpacking.

We had one nasty incident on a bus where the driver flat out lied, saying the bus was not going to our destination and he'd throw our bags off the bus if we didn't vacate the seats we'd paid for (so he could sell them again to some Indians). I didn't feel safe there and would only go back on a controlled private tour. I felt much more unsafe there than Morocco or Egypt where we had very few problems in comparison (we travelled independently there too). I would happily go back to either of them.

Weird question, if you wore Arab dress like an abaya for example do you think that would make a difference?

I went to Tunisia about 18 years ago. Totally hated it. Harassed by men at every turn. The only place Ive been (so far) that I would never go back to.

Indeed. This triggered a memory for me, mid 20s, late 90s I had moved for work to a major city. I was living alone and knew no one. Week one I made myself get out of the house just to get some takeaway. On the way there two boys, tweens, possibly 13, were leaning against a wall and they just leaned over and fully grabbed my boob, squeezing it painfully and guffawing between them. First time I was groped at 17 I reported it to the police to no avail, this was probably incident number 5 or 6 so reporting didn’t even enter my head. I spoke to both boys, told them they had committed a sexual offence and could be imprisoned. I guess I tried to own the moment and gain some control. I remember I went through with my plan to get a takeaway but my throat was so tight I couldn’t eat it.

Yeah India is terrifying. I honestly wouldn't go anywhere public without an adult man.

I dont agree anyone needs to wear a sari, people generally just need to be respectfully dressed in general terms, not necessarily to prevent attacks

But the very idea that the average Indian would see a white or black western person wearing a sari and think 'cultural appropriation'!! Are you on another planet!!

Only in this country or perhaps America is this a 'thing'. Most other cultures see it as hugely respectful to integrate, wear culturally matched clothging, engage with cultural norms and rituals, food, routine etc etc

Which of course it is.

Yes, it is awful and women should not have to put up with it anywhere. This is how some people have been brought up and change may or may not come but I can assure you these attitudes are not universal in India. It is usually better with education.
I am old and I travelled alone in Southern Europe in the early 1970s. I saw a lot of the places that are now tourist destinations before people went there. I can assure you there were similar attitudes and behaviour there as the OP met in the golden triangle. Quite frankly I was very lucky.
My husband and I have been to the golden triangle and I did not experience any of this behaviour because we had a driver and a guide. The guide was always with us when we were out of the hotels.
This year we went to Tamil Nadu and Kerala and found it very different, particularly in Kerala. Attitudes were much better. We were relaxed about walking on our won. I did get asked for a few selfies but these were mostly young women and they were extremely polite,

Jesus, yes! My Dh would have been extremely aggressive (probably verbally, unlikely to actually assault anyone) had someone made me uncomfortable.

This is why, despite how fabulous Turkey looks, I just won’t ever go there. I couldn’t cope with witnessing or being a victim. I’d bloody thump someone and I don’t fancy jail time.

Was just sharing my recent experience.
There were 3 all female groups at the centre when we went, fortunately no one experienced anything untoward.
I’m sorry Op had a horrible experience and not dismissing it.
I wouldn’t have felt safe out alone in New Delhi as a western woman on my own with a 12 year old.