India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

So it’s a democracy but not that much where rubbish is concerned?

One of my children was supposed to have an internship in India and was
really looking forward to the experience and the career development after that.

Lasted all of three weeks. I kept thinking she should have persevered, reading this thread now I think I she made the right decision.

That's what she said, yeah?

I do not care what people will think of me for saying this - I'd say it in real life, without being anonymous:

I will never (willingly) visit countries where women are treated in this way. I will watch telly travelogues (and have done for ages) to get a glimpse of the history, scenery, food and culture, but I will not go there.

You always get some bloke (Simon Reeve for eg) visiting places and giving them a good rap, but you know that a) he's got a camera crew with him b) he's a man and c) he's not going to criticise other cultures on TV.

Even when some celebrity woman goes and has a 'super time', the same applies - they are hardly negotiating the raw reality of these places alone. They'll be cushioned and protected by the camera crew and other staff and will never have to ride the subway/buses all alone as a woman. So they always report that things are just wonderful.

I don't buy it.

It’s the only reason I haven’t gone to India yet. I really want to but am waiting until I am older so hopefully less at risk

Please don't use India as your launching point for ' career development' unless you speak local languages and can contribute. And have an understanding of the country.

As these people think culture and socialisation make no impact on human behaviour, they presumably think we should have not teach boys and men to treat girls and women as equal human beings and there should be no consent lessons in schools as it won't make any difference.

Except, I am sure they do think we should have those things, and have never stopped to think this is inconsistent with their position that the problem is men and men are always the same.

I concur.

Should I wish to indulge in entertaining tomfoolery, I'll do it from afar.

Needless to say, I do not support their businesses either.

She couldn't have chosen a superior location. Why India?

🤣

In that case, he should have the humility not to go there in the first place.

Not every man can defend his family physically or get others to do so, however, nearly every man can read up on the country he plans to visit and simply not go if it's a country where his family are more at risk of assault.

Unless he's confident of the country he's about to visit, why bloody go in the first place.
Too arrogant and expecting every country is like the UK.

Why did he just say he wasn't going to go?
He can't stop his wife from going but he could have fought (not physically obviously) against his daughter going.

Where did I say was going to do that? I have my own career, think you very much.

Also, why not?

Thousands of young Indian men and women do it in the UK, why should someone from the UK not be able to follow their example?

Millions of Indians move abroad to do just that in other countries.

Young, naive and into yoga.

She came to her senses

Sorry, the diversity is not comparable to India. At all. And anyone making that comparison is wrong.
No caste system, for one.

There is a lot of ignorance about India on this thread. Of course, everyone is free to travel where they want to. And I wouldn't recommend India to some western woman. But man, so much nonsense.
People calling India a rich country should look at the per capita income. Not a rich country.

Being a bloke is clearly the biggest part of not being sexually harassed, and the TV crew also provides another layer of safety; however, I think that really careful research or even paying for a trustworthy package can insulate you against casual theft or assault or being arrested as a spy on your holidays.

I am pleased to hear she gathered her senses before something dreadful happened to her.

You're right about the caste system, I agree that that is something that is incredibly regressive and Indians should be ashamed it still exists. No clue what the relevancy that has to your odd idea that China is somehow less diverse that India though.

Also, I have a feeling you are in the UK?

One rule for you but different for others?

Yes. My parents were both doctors on skilled work visas invited in to help the NHS in the sixties, who spoke English, along with two other languages.

Quite different from students on gap years keen on yoga and going to save India! 🙄 Like those kids who go to Kenya or Nigeria hoping to do charity work. Bad idea.

Which western women do you mean when you say some?

I agree that young kids on charity gap years are bullshit, but saying that your family had the right to start their careers in the UK but UK children are not allowed to do it in reverse is nonsense.

I wouldn't recommend India to solo travellers or those on a budget.
I would also recommend avoiding the Golden Triangle entirely and going to Southern, Western and North Eastern India with a good tour. The last particularly so as it's an undiscovered gem.

I agree that students going to India on gap years to "save the country" is ridiculous (does that really still happen?). Indians are perfectly capable of improving their country, unfortunately many seem to have no interest in doing so.

Sigh. There are literally millions of Indians doing all kinds of great work.
The problems are immense beyond comprehension, so progress is often slow.

Look at the TFR. It's fallen to 1.9. That didn't happen by accident.

You don’t know how many languages my DD speaks.
And what qualifications she has, naive and idealistic silliness aside.

India can solve their own problems.