India – loved it, but I came back feeling so violated.

[LondonLass40]

Just back from the Golden Triangle with my husband (43) and 12yr daughter. Stunning forts, incredible food ( lucky no Delhi belly 😀) amazing history is genuinely breathtaking.

But I’m struggling to process the darker side.

One afternoon in Delhi, my husband stayed at the hotel. I took my daughter to a busy market near cannaught place in broad daylight, crowded. A man walked past and grabbed my breast. Right in front of my daughter. He just kept walking. I froze. My poor girl kept asking why he touched Mummy.

Then there was the constant selfie nonsense when my husband was there and men lining up, putting their arms around me, getting too close while my husband stood there awkwardly not knowing what to do.

And the worst part was at the Red Fort queue. This guy kept pushing into me from behind – clearly not an accident. I turned around and shouted at him. He didn't run, didn't even look embarrassed , he just walked away ignoring me like I was invisible. I spoke to a security guard who just pretend to do something and did absolutely nothing.

I know these issues aren't isolated to India and this could happen in London too. But this was so blatant, so frequent, so relentless that I simply cannot ignore it. I've been to so many tourist destinations around the world and have never experienced harassment on this scale. It felt inescapable.

I don't know – does this only happen to Western women? I'm sure men like this do the same to Indian women too. How on earth do they deal with this every single day? I honestly don't think I'd go back.

Bangalore is safe.

Sigh. India is not rich and there is no comparison to China.
One reason is because it's a democracy.

Most of India is plagued by this widespread issue.

I have Indian friends who themselves dislike visiting their own country for the aforementioned reasons.

It doesn't require much energy to locate a rubbish bin.

Personal litter isn't anyone else's responsibility except your own.

I have felt safer in Bangalore, Mumbai and Chennai late at night than in parts of London, tbh. But then I live in SE London where gangs of wild teens have become common.

The reference above to Sri Lanka being unsafe is ridiculous. I've been recently and completely agree with the stuff I read before I went about it being very safe for women.

I'm not saying bad things never happen - because they do - and nor am I saying that these aren't different cultures which aren't always different in a good way, but the hysteria on this thread from people who've probably never even set foot in the countries they're denigrating is off the scale.

You are really putting words into my mouth. I didn't say anything about personal responsibility.

Have you ever wondered why 2 poor neighbourhoods in UK can be either well-kept or a tip? It's the people who live there that make it so. You can be poor but still tidy up after yourself.

Yes, that’s right. Know your place White women. Stop whining about being sexually assaulted and MASTURBATED OVER, just prioritise educating your daughter on how privileged she is.
🙄
Fucking hell.

On a work trip to India 3 of us planned a trip into local markets and our Indian colleagues and hotel staff told us under no circumstances to go without a chaperone so our German male colleague came with us.
I have red hair. Very red hair and my hair was grabbed constantly by men and women and constant requests for photos which I declined. My arms were grabbed and rubbed, more concerning was a when we were looking to buy silks, being grabbed and pushed down alleyways and back of shops to see “ the wonderful special silk we keep for only the special tourists ‘
We went inside a church and a woman started praying over me, think she thought I was a wrong ‘un due to my brighter than the sun hair colour.
Our German colleague spent the day pushing them away from us. It was pretty awful.
I’d like to think it wouldn’t put me off going back it’s a beautiful country and the people are for the most part wonderful.

I know China has its problem with being a communist country. But you can't say the reason India has poor infrastructure is because of democracy.

I'm saying it's rich is because it has a very highly educated workforce and many IT projects are outsourced there. It's not a poor country with no source of income. It is actually the 6th largest economy in the world. It's also the world's fastest growing economy. I'm only comparing it to China because both are developing countries with a large population and a lot of rural areas.

It may not be inappropriate to ask (in your opinion), but it's very ignorant, given Indian women suffer some of the highest rates of sexual violence in the world.

I visited a long time ago and it was the same. The locals even had a name for it- "eve teasing" ( a very euphemistic term for sexual harassment and abuse of girls and women)

It's very sad to hear that two decades later things haven't improved.

Well, one community holds a majority of people from specific backgrounds ..

Dare I recite the names; otherwise, I'll be called a racist.

Trickledown has not worked. IT is confined to certain parts of the country. Probably a complicated subject for another thread.

India really cannot be compared to China though.
Six religions, sixteen languages- language changes every few hundred km- a subcontinent rather than a country.

Go ahead. It's not like MN does anything about racism anyway.

Why do so many Mumsnetters argue the absolute toss that men from India, Egypt, Morocco, Afghanistan etc are no more likely to sexually harass women or view them as a commodity than men from the UK? The fact is that they definitely are. Women are seen as possessions and in reality have no rights whatsoever. It's ingrained in the culture. Admittedly there's not much we can do to change it, but I don't understand why so many women in this country go out of their way to deny or excuse it.

I've never been but I've heard Indian girls say moving from Delhi to Mumbai is a weight lifted off their shoulders as to how safe they feel.

Because "white man bad as well"

Actually, I see your point now - China can basically say "there will be a city here now 100% powered by windfarms" and it happens, because they can just move the people out the way whether they like it or not. They also say "women hold up half the sky" and are just as important to the workforce as men.

Is it dirty because it’s a democracy?

It's beyond bizarre. Look at how their 'own' women are treated.

To think I would fantasise about visiting India or Pakistan.

Sadly Japan has form for this - hence women-only train carriages.

Are you familiar with the federal system of India? And the corruption at state level?

How illuminating.

What's the correlation between democracy and not expecting another to pick up the rubbish you dropped?

Don't be obtuse, dear.

@friedaklein India really cannot be compared to China though.
Six religions, sixteen languages- language changes every few hundred km- a subcontinent rather than a country.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about China. It's a massive country, incredibly diverse and there are dozens of regional languages spoken.