To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

She doesn’t have to do any such thing. She would be very wise not to, in fact.

This is why we have entitled little brats.

I’d wager that is what the £1200 is for.

Start as you mean to go on, OP. He’ll just be back for more in a few months. You need your savings for unexpected emergencies, not for this feckless man-child’s spends in Italy.

That’s not a saying, and there’s nothing there that suggests the OP didn’t parent her son properly.

The OP has no obligation to raise her grandkids, no matter what her parenting style was. Even spoilt children become adults and that involves taking responsibility for one’s own choices. The 18 year old in this situation should become that, a responsible adult. He’s not entitled to OP’s money by any means.

No wonder we have so many people in society failing to take responsibility for their actions, with attitudes like yours around.

I spend more than that getting my nails done and you probably waste 100 quid quite happily on another stuff that you don’t need.

You are lucky enough to have extra money at the end of the month for nails and “stuff you don’t need”. Many people don’t, so no, I don’t waste money on unnecessary stuff. Even if I had it, there are wiser and better things to do with £100 than nails 😂

Perhaps your situation is very different than OP’s, so I don’t think your advice applies to her right now.

I’ve made my point. I’m not gonna keep lamenting it but yes, actually that is a saying.
If you spoil your children, you’ll raise your grandkids.
If you raise your children you get to spoil the grandchildren.

OP just bear in mind that like so many other situations on Internet forums all of the big tough talkers on here would not behave the same towards their own children.
If he stops you from seeing the children, yes he is a shithead
But who’s loss is it?

@Jaxonus Agreed that you shouldn't lend him money.

An unemployed broke person booking holidays is absolutely bonkers and unhinged.

Even though I'm employed, I would very very rarely take foreign holidays because I have to prioritise saving.

He's cocklodging off her.

Does this mean he's made a grand gesture of getting her to book a holiday without having the money to back it up?

So parents in order to support their adult non working children should be blackmailed into handing over their own hard earned money to two non working adults who decided to have two children. The money is for spending money on a foreign holiday. It’s not for education, children’s shoes, a crisis, it’s for two adults to have fun. 2 and 5 year olds of non working parents don’t need to go to Italy. They can do non costly things like go to the seaside and buy an ice cream.

Don't do it. He is still at the stage in life where he wants to do what he wants and hopes some other mug can be persuaded to foot the bill. His girlfriend sounds as if she is cut from the same cloth. The only way you can truly help him is by refusing. If he wants to live like a man he must act like one. I suspect he suspects that when he runs out of cash his girlfriend will dump him and find somebody else. Don't let him weaponise the grandchild against you. I am very sorry to say this, but the GF has control of the kids and she will cut you off sooner or later - if not now, then when she has squeezed every last penny she can out of you.

Be strong.

It’s the grandkids’ loss, due to the actions of their parents. The OP will not be the one responsible for them being kept away from grandma.

You also have no idea how many of us have had to make tough choices and cut off loved family members, because we have standards and will not continue the cycle of entitlement you describe. Don’t assume everyone here is happily funding their “alcoholic gamers” while criticising the OP. Maybe we speak from experience.

Don’t lend him the money, he needs some tough love, but don’t go too hard on him either. Yes he’s acting like a child without responsibilities but he’s been put in a situation no child should be put in. The woman has slept with a child, your son. Imagine if it was the other way round, the adult male may well likely be in prison right now if it was.

Offer to do a food shop and tell him you don’t have the money to lend. Emphasise the need to get a job, help him if you have to. Suggest he gets back into education and learns a trade etc.

I wouldn't give the money.
Him and the GF are everything that's wrong with society today. Total leeches. Her health condition doesn't seem to stop her doing anything, apart from working. The state is no doubt forking out a massive monthly amount for her and 2 dc. He makes one bad decision after the other and wants you to pay the bill. He had a job (which is lucky these days) and pissed it up the wall. Fancy wasting the child trust fund like that as well.

They are both useless drains and I'd cut them off. The grandchild has absolutely no chance with parents like that. Neither does the elder child, whose father apparently hasn't paid the maintenance.

If you give them the £1,200 don't expect it back.

I am actually strongly in favour of helping Gen Z onto their feet. But these two are just going to piss away any help given to them and never get on their feet so there is no point. You can only help people who are actually going to capitalise on that help, rather than just sit on their arses demanding more.

I am just disgusted about the Italy holiday. I associate that kind of spending with someone on a 6 figure salary, not dossers who don't earn a single penny.

DS only lost his apprenticeship a few weeks ago so he still got paid last month which is what he's living off I presume. He has spent most if not all of the trust fund on the holiday, I did wonder if he was asking for the money for spending money but apparently it's an all inclusive

He doesn't see that the relationship is wrong so now I have to bite my tongue and be careful what I say about her as he just gets defensive and when I told the school safeguarding when he first told me about the pregnancy it just pushed them closer and nothing was done either even though DS was under the age of consent when the baby was conceived. The gf doesn't have a relationship with her parents because “they don't like ds” although I suspect there more to it and it's more to do with his age

It’s not really about the amount and if the OP can afford it or not it’s about the fact her son is a dead beat who doesn’t think he needs to have a job to support his own child.

His continued attitude to learning, school, his apprenticeship and other jobs has been that it’s not important and he doesn’t need to do that. Well when you have children yes you do.

He needs to put his big boy pants on and grow the hell up. People who don’t work for no good reason don’t get the luxury of holidays.

Quite frankly his attitude stinks and he seems to think that there will always be someone else to fix his problems and pay his way.

Any normal sensible grown up who had just lost their job would be saying that a holiday is the last priority right now and paying the bills and finding a new job comes first.

Don't lend him the money, he will never repay it. He sounds incredibly immature and self absorbed.

I would suspect he wants the money for holiday spends. Why on earth should you be subsidising his gf due to lack of maintenance from her ex partner?

He/she won't pay you back - it's a lot of money and if she is on benefits and he has no income how will they ever have an spare money to give it back to you? This will also become a regular thing and he will continue to use your DGC to try to get his own way. You will not be doing him a favour in the long run.

The only thing I would perhaps do is get them an online food shop perhaps or a couple of packs of nappies, if you genuinely know they are struggling. I'd also encourage her to speak with service providers if she is unable to pay bills at the moment - they are often very understanding.

Don't do it.

OP, can’t you see that it’s wrong he wants to go on a holiday when he should be looking for a new job?

You can still go out and buy/spend plenty even if it's all inclusive

It's the old adage - money doesn't grow on trees.

There is only one way for young people to learn this. You need money? You go out and earn it.

apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad,

Um, what does CMS for her older child have to do with you or your DS? If her ex has lowered his payments for some reason (perhaps job loss), they're unlikely to suddenly go back up- so how will she repay the loan?

Keep out of it @Jaxonus. It's interesting that she doesn't get on with her parents, perhaps she owes them a lot of money and they've had enough.

Does your DS have any friends who are getting on with their lives? I'd encourage him to keep in touch with them, because he needs to see that there's more to life than hanging around with this woman. He can get back on track and be a better father to his son.

There are so many reasons I’d be saying no to giving this money.

1. you don’t actually know what it is for, could just as easily be for something your son wants or him to date another girl or anything - he’s just saying it’s to help support the kids as he thinks that will work

2. if it is for his groomer girlfriend you don’t agree to lend someone money through a third party because you need to have a proper agreement for them to repay

3. you will never pursue her for the money back when she refuses to repay as your grandchild is in the crossfire

4. you would be announcing yourself as open for free money to your son and his partner

5. you need the money yourself for your security.

That’s all leaving the holiday situation to one side.

My guess is that they’ll be coming back to you when they need childcare. I’d be nice to them and just stick to - I don’t have the money.

If your son had an emergency bill or something you’d probably help but this is his or her life he wants you to pay for. He fucked up repeatedly and lost his job. Sorry mate.

It's disgusting that school didn't do any safeguarding here. If it had been a 22 year old man and 15 year old girl I wonder if they would have done something about it then!? Ridiculous double standards. Your son needed support/help then. Sounds like the girl just needed someone she could control.

Since you were saving this money for
Emergencies what happens when you have an emergency and don't have the money? It's not a loan (and you know it) he will not pay you back.

Couple of wasters. The government put money towards his trust fund. In other words, we the taxpayers did. I can't remember what Gordon Brown originally intended the money for. I dont think it was for wasters and their kids to go on holiday in Italy.

The female is on benefits. Too ill to work but perfectly capable of breeding. Healthy enough to go to Italy. The benefits system can pay for her lifestyle and raise her kids by different dads. Op son is living off his mum, unable to raise his kid because he is unemployable. That's OK, the taxpayers can raise his kid. His mum can supplement them too.

And let's not kid ourselves, he's not living with his gf because she gets extra benefits by claiming she lives alone- paid for by the taxpayers. Even better, the present government are planning on taxing us more in order to supplement wasters even more. They are encouraging this behaviour.

I know there's plenty of single mums on mumsnet slogging their guts out to raise their kids. I know life isn't easy for them. I know they don't get the support they deserve.
Couples like this are taking the piss out of the taxpayers, hard working single mums, and the OP.