To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

Tbh I think you need to step back and let him grow up and take responsibility.
Just tell him you can’t afford to help anymore including food shops - he may get funny with you at first but then he’ll want you to babysit etc.
I’m afraid you’ve made him the man he is - it’s time to let go.

A lot of us don’t waste £100 on what we don’t need. Not everyone can afford to.

Don't give him the money or it will set a precedent. If you can't afford to support your children, you shouldn't be booking a holiday. However, that'd his business, not yours.

I agree with what a PP said about explaining to him about not using emotional blackmail on people.

I don't waste money on things I don't need as I said I'm careful with money and put it away for emergencies

Don’t be blackmailed into giving over your hard earned money to two people who are not working and want money to go on holiday.

It comes down to whether you want a relationship with your son and his child or not
He will come through this and he will get a job and he will be a good father and he will be a good partner but he just needs time and space to grow up in either you’re gonna provide that support and then you get to be part of the next stage
Or you take a chance that you might just get cut out completely. What’s that £1200 worth to you?

Do not give in he may then realise that he will have to work

I’ll bet the £1200 is spending money for the Italy holiday.

And this is how entitled bratty children become entitled bratty adults.

I was just gonna say, I think that’s what it’s for. They can’t afford the trip spends so just look at it that way.
You’re giving them spending money to go on their holiday, it’s for the grandchildren really

Definitely not.

It wouldn't be a loan, whatever he says.

If you say yes now it's very unlikely this will be the first and only time.

Do you even have proof that it's for bills and that the other child's father isn't paying? Or do they just want some spending money?

Has he spent all his savings on the holiday?

If not why doesn't he "lend" her the money?

Do you know what that’s not my experience? My auntie was in exactly the same situation. She fucked up with her daughter. Her daughter ended up a young single mother and she had to support her for a number of years until she got her shit together but fundamentally she knew it was because she’d fucked up with her daughter.
That’s the price you pay when you let your 15 year-old do what he did

Cross posted with the last few PPs. Glad it's not just me who's supicious.

Families don’t need to go to Italy to “make memories” for 2 children aged 2 and 5. The fact they booked this holiday just shows they have no common sense.

It’s not on you to give him money, he needs to find a job.

what about girlfriend’s parents. Are they in the picture?

Ye gods!

How absolutely self absorbed

When he tries to guilt you about the kids tell him they're a bit young to enjoy Italy anyway.

Weaponizing is a different story. If he's so prepared to charge you money to access his kid, your relationship with your grandchild will never be stable because it's only transactional, if you can't pay he cuts you off. And that is the behaviour of someone who doesn't care about you, but only uses you for what he can get from you. You can't force access and it would be dumb to pay for access because he'll beggar you without a second thought. What if he wants to move the lot of them in with you or he'll cut you off? Weaponizing his kid via PPV is nuclear and I'd kick him out and go no contact for that alone.

You're going to have to put yourself first here. You need your money for you. Your son is going to have to make his own way and provide for his kid himself.

How does he manage for money if he's not working and not claiming benefits?

Don't lend him money. If you do, you'll never see a penny of it again. If you can't afford to lose the money, then you can't afford to lend/give it.

Your son has a child with his girlfriend, and therefore needs to stand on his own two feet, to support his family. He's wasted the child trust fund money he did have on a holiday to Italy, that he can't actually afford to fund. I suspect the money you'd be lending him, would be to pay for their spending money.

At the most I'd offer to take his girlfriend food shopping. I certainly wouldn't be giving her money, because you have no control over what it's being spent on.

You need to start putting firm boundaries in place. If your son decides to punish you by keeping your grandchild away from you, then let him. You need to remember, that it's your son that keeps relying on you, not the other way around! I can guarantee, that he'll soon want you back in his life.

Your son needs to grow up, it's that simple. Don't enable his immature behaviour but allowing him to walk all over you.

This. Cut him off. My son has just had money to do a course essential to his career. He's worked bloody hard getting a degree and a masters. Has worked part time all the way through university weeks and full time in the holidays. His partner has done the same.

Save your money for your own holiday in Italy.

Finally someone saying it! This boy was groomed as a 15 year old by an adult woman. If the sexes were reversed here and the OP's DD had been impregnated at 15 by a 22 year old man, the pitchforks would be out.

OP, your DS does sound difficult and like he's making bad choices but he's so young and and he's not really had a chance to mature in the way other young men do, because he was groomed into becoming a father and step father when he was still a child himself. It's such a mess, I feel really sorry for him. Would he consider some therapy, or support from someone neutral who can help him sort his life out a bit more?

Don’t lend it to him. The fact he’s booked to go to italy shows they have no common sense - the pair of them. Tell him he needs to find a full time job, he was man enough to date a 22 year old woman and get her pregnant at 15 then he’s man enough to stand on his own two feet and support his kid!

And also the woman groomed your child, she’s effectively a pedophile.

Side issue but you spend £100 a month getting your nails done?! Wild.

OP I would empathise with him on how tough the job market is but still say no. You can say no and still be kind. He needs to stand on his own two feet.

Yes, this is not actually a situation where a one off 1.2k donation would resolve the matter for good.

Either he won't actually make his DC pay per view, in which case problem solved. Or he will, and it's going to happen sooner or later regardless, not least because OP doesn't actually have that much money.