To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

Exactly @DaisyChain505. Once his attitude changes, the OP will be more inclined to help out financially - but his partner isn't her priority, it's her son and grandson.

The fact that she's estranged from her own parents makes me highly suspicious that she owes money to them and they've had enough.

Hi op you have done the right thing he has made his bed it’s a shame about gc but it’s not like you wanted one right now. He needs to learn that life is hard and if he chooses to not work that’s on him they obviously plan on claiming benefits for there family life. Does he pay any rent to you? Don’t listen to the ones who say it’s only 100 a month it’s also the principal gf must have managed financially before he came along. It’s not the best situation but your ds sounds like it’s his way or no way you are never going to win with him.

You are making a lot of optimistic assumptions there!

There is obviously a lot going on here but I would give him the money with the proviso that after the holiday you can help him make some necessary changes. there is no pint in letting him lose money and it might be a life lesson.

He may unfortunately be right that there are not a lot of jobs and it is such a shame that he has lost an apprenticeship. Is there anyway he can plead with the employer for a second chance?

The girlfriend has potentially trapped him in a situation but he seems to be dealing with it and I would do my my best to support him. He was underage when the pregnancy occurred and that should not be taken lightly.

The reality is it is their first holiday with a 2 and 5 year old so it will not be a huge party and in fact will be very difficult. I remember my first holiday with a 2 year old in my early 30s (I had of course had many holidays in the previous 30 years) it was hell!

I would encourage him overall not to get trapped ie: make sure she rekindles her relationship with her family so you don’t have to step in.

The holiday may be all inclusive but they need to get to / from the airport and hotel.
They / the kids will at least need a drink on the plane.
Are they planning to just stay on the resort / hotel ?
Also if they cancel now he could lose the whole amount.
I bet this is for spending money ?
Are you sure there are no drugs involved ? What happens to her money ?
Lots of fathers don’t pay maintenance, and mothers manage. Has she got a job ? He could have the baby while she works.

If you don’t draw a line, he will never learn. My brother is in his late 50s and he and his wife are still at this nonsense, booking holidays they can’t afford (as if holidays are a basic human right), then emotionally blackmailing my parents for money for mortgage payments or their “grandkids will become homeless”…doing unnecessary redecorating and home improvements based on what’s “in fashion”, always swearing to pay back and absolutely never doing so. In the long term, you aren’t doing them any favours pandering to it even once, sorry 😞

No, he needs to grow up. The only thing I'd give them the money for is something for the baby and I wouldn't buy new as I think they'd sell it.

You're definitely not unreasonable. I understand that circumstances are less than ideal regards how he's ended up with this woman, but they have a child and he needs to grow the fuck up and start prioritising the kid. You'd only be enabling him shitting his life up by loaning him the money (and how's he proposing to pay it back?!)

Give him the money and have nothing left for emergencies? Daft advice. Make sure your own life belt is on before helping others, or you'll both suffer.

Don’t do it. They need to grow up now. You’ll never see that money again

Of course she does. Thats why she’s reluctant to give him money when he didn’t have to book a holiday they can’t afford.

Don't lend him the money.

Send food. Get ASDA to deliver so you know they are all eating.

He sounds exceptionally impulsive. Was there ever a conversation about querying ADHD at any point in his school life?

Consequences. We do our best to teach our children that their actions and choices have consequences, and mostly we succeed - but for some children, the lessons don't take.

This young man started going off the rails whilst still a boy, when he was still unable to envisage the consequences he was risking. Those consequences are now coming into play (cancelled apprenticeship etc.) and he is still, childishly, sticking his fingers in his ears, singing la-la-la and expecting mummy to make it all 'right' for him. But that time is over, and it's time for him to accept his responsibilities for his child, his life, his CHOICES. OK, those choices were made before he could appreciate the gravity of them; regardless those were the choices he made and now has to live with.

He chose to fuck about with his school, in consequence he doesn't have any qualifications. He chose to fuck about with his apprenticeship, and it was withdrawn. He chose to not make every effort to secure a job. He chose to book a foreign holiday when he didn't have the money to pay for it, and he didn't have the money to pay for it because of prior choices. So - consequences.

I know it's hard OP, but you really need to let him experience the consequences HE created. Don't lend him the money. You must know it isn't going to go on bills, I'd expect it to be spending money on this unnecessary holiday, possibly even the holiday itself. Give him the money now, and he'll just come back for more, again and again, refusing to shoulder the consequences of his own actions.

To be blunt - 'lending' him money (you know he wouldn't repay it) just prolongs this refusal-to-be-responsible-for-himself phase of his life. It may be he chooses to stay in this phase forever. Maybe he'll wise up. Maybe he won't. But you need to accept you cannot help him move on in any way, and giving him money will not do anything positive for him. Quite the opposite.

" I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now"
Stay strong. If he'll weaponise contact now and you buckle, he'll do it every damned time from now on. I think @HandPulledNoodles has it spot-on with her suggestion that you respond " 'well thats your decision to not give them a relationship with their grandma' You have to dash the fantasy that he can do what he likes".

Please don't give him the money. The gf doesn't work due to a health condition so I am going to guess she is claiming every benefit possible. She now needs a considerable amount for bills, why? How has she been budgeting? Her issue with the oldest child's father not paying is not yours to resolve. Your son is not living with her. He needs to ensure he is paying whenever he and her have agreed, if that means he has to get agency work so be it. He was grown up enough not to put something on the end of it when he started having sex, that comes now with a lifetime of responsibility. You will never see that money again and will be treated like a soft touch. If she cannot afford bills she cannot afford to go on holiday, who would be paying for spends etc?

It won’t be a loan, be clear about that. If he pays you back I’ll eat my hat.

Hell no. Don't help someone who isn't lifting a finger to help themselves.

And time he went to live with the GF. She presumably won't tolerate him not working and all the rest.

He chose to fast-forward to adulthood by having a child. If he never has to experience what it is to actually support his own child, there'll be another child soon - with this woman or another.

Tell him you're not interested in a pay-per-view relationship, with him or his child - or you'll still have one when he's middle-aged. He's not going to change until he's forced to.

Though I daresay you'll be seeing your grandchild when they want some free childcare...

Very tough for you but id say a firm no. He needs to act like a grown up if he is living like one

@Elsvieta don't think it's a case of girlfriend not tolerating him not working it's a case of if on paper he was living there it would change things universal credit wise so it's a benefit fraud tactic not declaring

Your son sees your relationship as transactional. You give, he takes. I know a lot of people have said ADHD but that's more than ADHD. I wouldn't trust a word he says.

Your emergency fund is hard earned money you've put aside for your emergencies, not to give him spending money for holidays or pay gf's bills or anything. He'll be having bill issues every month, especially not working. Next thing will be you paying for the kids' stuff. It will never end and you will have an emergency and he will not be helping.

You're going to have to do with him what her parents have done with her.

Why are you saying it’s £100 a month? He’s asked for £1200 now, do you think he’s really not going to ask for anything else for another 12 months? It could end up being £1000 a month. And she’s only got one grandchild, which I’m sure she does a lot for and he’d be stupid to try and cut her out. I wouldn’t allow him to use the child as a bartering tool, he’ll just do that every time he wants something.

He's still living with you. Is he contributing anything financially?
I'd give him a time limit on finding a job. If he doesn't get one, kick him out. Because atm he's playing you like a fiddle.
No. Of course you shouldn't give him money. You can't allow him to start manipulating you using grandchildren. That's a long con. He could bleed you dry financially.

Do you have a husband/partner. Do you have other kids you support?

*ADHD? Again? Seriously? Can't he just be a little tosser who uses people to get what he wants while doing the very least to contribute to society? This place is exhausting.

But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

His children aren't your responsibility. He's manipulating you with that, trying to make you feel bad whilst not taking responsibility for this actions.

At that age, children just want and remember nice days they've spent playing with friends, or being in the park or by the beach. They won't miss going on a foreign holiday that lasts several days. That holiday is for him, and that's why he's guilt tripping you to put on the pressure.

I'm sorry OP, but your son sounds like an arse, and the fact that his partner was in her early 20s but didn't mind him being in his mid teens???? Pervy and odd.

I think it's wild that a 21 year old woman was interested in having a 15 year old for a father for her existing child and got pregnant by him. Where are the gf's parents in all this; are they also being tapped for money to pay for holidays?

I think the previous suggestions of not giving money, but offering to do food shops is the way forward. If you are able to extend it to helping out with childcare on occasions for them to get back into work, that is also a good way of being supportive, but not giving them lump sums of cash to fund their poor decision making. Holidays are a luxury for most people, whether they're working or not and memories can be made in plenty of other ways which don't involve £££. Offer to take them on a cheaper day out to spend quality time together and make some family memories.

But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

His children aren't your responsibility. He's manipulating you with that, trying to make you feel bad whilst not taking responsibility for this actions.

At that age, children just want and remember nice days they've spent playing with friends, or being in the park or by the beach. They won't miss going on a foreign holiday that lasts several days. That holiday is for him, and that's why he's guilt tripping you to put on the pressure.

I'm sorry OP, but your son sounds like an arse, and the fact that his partner was in her early 20s but didn't mind him being in his mid teens???? Pervy and odd.