To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

Meant : she pays for what she needs. Little boys live with mum not with older lover

You'll never see a penny of the £1200 again. He's a proven liar and wholly unreliable. Don't give him a solitary penny.

If he goes to live with his girlfriend, DWP would expect him to work and soon, therefore the benefits she receives now will reduce.

glad someone else pointed this out! So essentially she has engaged in sexual activity with a child, she seems lovely.

Not in a million years would I give him the money. He’s taking the piss out of you.

No I didn’t read a full 10 pages of comments but the few pages I did read no one mentioned it. Hence, the comments I have read so far comment. In total agreement with you.

It’s not a common AI destination though and is expensive.
I know because I’ve done plenty of holiday planning for Italy m. Surely those looking for a budget trip would look at Spain etc

Yep - here’s the only two pieces of advice I’d personally follow, OP!

Don't lend him the money- they need to go on the housing list and get out of your house. His GF obviously doesn't make good decisions, and neither does your DS.
Forget about contact with the GC, they will just use iut to extract what they can.
They need to be independent- what if they have more children? You are already paying for their bad choices, it has to stop.

He needs to become an adult now and move in with his girlfriend and child.

What a shitshow.

but what is the 1.2k for specifically? Its an awful lot of money for someone who claims benefits? I would presume its not for rent as that would be subsidised, so what do they need it for? Maybe they have bailiffs at their door? If ask what it’s for specifically and if its a necessity (council tax, rent, utilities) then I’d be asking for their acc reference numbers and paying it in myself. I wouldn’t hand over the money but I would also not just leave them in a mess if it’s essential bills as that could result in nasty consequences and there’s a GC involved.

The asking g for money and using the grandchild as weapons won't stop, believe I know. I am now NC with my AC as this went on and no matter what you do it will never be right. If you refuse you are "toxic" if you give in they will play you until you do something else that "ovetsteps their boundaries". Say no now and save yourself the stress, debt and heartache that will inevitably follow. If he's "adult" enough to father a child and play house with this woman then hes adult enough to sort his own finances and learn that holidays don't come before necessary living costs.

You need to put your foot down. The more you do for him, the more he expects. If he is the father( l wouldn't be too sure of that) he needs to behave like one, and go and live with the gf. He sounds like he swans about doing whatever he likes when he likes. He should be with his gf, helping with his child, night feeds etc, behaving as a father should. I know it is hard, but you are his biggest enabler. If they have no money for bills, how have they paid for a holiday to Italy? I think the money he wants to "borrow" is for spends for the holiday, not bills. Unless you teach some tough love, he will continue to treat you, the disgusting way he does, nothing will change for the better, it will be worse. As a mother it goes against all our instincts, but he needs to man up, be a father, a full time father, he needs to know his responsibilities, and will only learn by you telling him, he is out. He needs to live with his child, and grow up.

I am also going to mention ADHD.

As others have said, I wouldn’t lend the money, and would also suggest you get him to move out.

Tough love lessons now I’m afraid.

Are you the girlfriend?

But it's not £100 a month is it?
He'll be back for more. He'll keep making stupid decisions and happily watch his mum get into debt.

He will happily use his grandchild as a means to blackmail his mother. Yet isn't bothered enough to live with the child or get a job. Or even keep the job he had.

But by all means, send your manicure money to him. Not everyone has that cash lying around every month FFS.

You see my question is if she’s that poor why does her son think that she has the £1200
My kids know who in the family would have £1200 lying around and who to ask if they wanted it or needed it so clearly this is the opinion his mother has a spare £1200
I didn’t raise this kid, so I won’t be sending my money to him, nor did I allow my 15-year-old to get sexually assaulted so I have no penance to pay.

Lots of could’ve would’ve should’ve in this case isn’t there?

Why, it's gf debt not ops sons. I also think its going to be for holiday stuff/her cc debt. Let's face it, any person with low enough morals to be having sex with a 15 year old isnt likely to be Mother Teresa in other aspects of their life. I think they just realised how expensive an Italian holiday is going to be.

He was 15 when a 21 year old woman slept with him. Perhaps that is a matter for the police?

'...His gf doesn't work due to a health condition...'

Well, of course she doesn't...🙄

oh its so easy for people on here to give advice when not in the situation, especially without any kids of this age. This is a bloody shitty age for sure, letting the make their own choices and mistakes and trying not to step in and parent to much is really challenging. Not to mention they turn 18 and suddenly think they're an adult but with no life experience or clue of the responsibility. Push too hard and risk loosing them, don't push hard enough and watch them screw up badly - its a nightmare!!!

my inital concerns here are the situation with the GF, he was 15 and she was 22 and she got pg!!!..... this is a huge red flag here which i think people are overlooking as she is the older party, why on earth did school not follow up on safeguarding here? were the police ever contacted?

Maybe have a sit down conversation with them, let them know you'll always be there for him and your grandchild, however you're not a financial support option for them and shouldnt be made to feel guilty for that. They need to establish a better arrangement for living so that he can be a full time parent and partner, they also should speak with citizens advice to work out what benefits they're entitled to and possibly job centre for him as well.

supporting in this way is pretty much all you can do, you cannot be a financial support though as he'll never manage on his own otherwise

Obviously stick to your decision and don’t lend him the money. He’s been running rings round you for a very long time. He thinks you’re a soft touch, you must lay down some boundaries and don’t let him use the children to blackmail you. I’m wondering if it has ever been suggested that he has ADHD? Or some other underlying behavioural issues?

He lost his carpentery job through laziness and the assumption that he could live off you if fired. I would not give him £1,200 to spend on a holiday, (particularly if he used the nauseating expression 'making memories').

He'll never have to grow up and try to keep a job if you keep giving him money.

He lost his job for being a prat.
He had repeated warnings about health and safety issues. He kept ignoring them and carried on acting like a prat.
Do you know how important health and safety are in the construction industry?

Don't give him the money, it's probably for spending on holiday anyway. I'd say I don't have any money, how does he know you have that much money? Tell him nothing, plead poverty they way they are.

Why should you give money to pay his girlfriend’s bills at the cost of going without , let them go to citizens advice to get support for managing debt . Maybe they could both get a job and be responsible . I can’t see the relationship lasting tbh . This is reality and if he wants to be a good dad get a job . Don’t feel guilty .