To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

He isn’t a child @MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend

If you are willing and able to gift the money then do that because they are never going to repay a loan. However, I don't think you can afford to and, like any blackmailer, he will keep coming back so long as you pay him. You can't force him to behave as a responsible adult but you can stop him dragging you down with him.

He was originally living here as it was easier to get to his apprenticeship than if he was staying at his gfs. He does stay over there occasionally but theres times DS comes back early as they've had an argument but then the next minute they're fine

He isn't claiming any benefits as to yet but his gf obviously is.

It’s £1200 £100 a month versus not having a relationship with your son and your grandchildren ? I spend more than that getting my nails done and you probably waste 100 quid quite happily on another stuff that you don’t need. Just give the kid the money.

He's 18 isn't he? Are you someone who thinks someone turns from child to adult on their 18th birthday? She can treat him like an adult all she likes but it won't end well.

And those benefits would reduce if he lives there (when he’s working). This is part of the issue - he has no incentive to support his family.

Never lend money you can't afford to lose.

You should have just said you don’t have that much. He can’t have what you don’t have.

Let him get on with it. He needs to learn consequences of silly actions. I would make sure the children are fed and that’s all.

And you think this would be the only time they'd ask the OP for money if she hands over £1200?

The problem isn't going to be the £1200 he needs now, it's going to be the £500 in two months' time and the £700 the month after that. Then it will be Christmas expenses.... And the grandchildren will be held over you every single time.

You're going to have to say no at some point, so make it now.

Neither of them sound as if they have 2 brains to rub together. It's a bit of a shambles really.

If you give him the money you won't see it again, are you happy to have that happen. If not then don't let him bully you into giving it. If you gave it to him it wouldn't guarantee your relationship would improve either.

Yes and then the next bills that come in for the 22 year old,she will be sending him round for another loan (ie more money that she will not be paying back.)
The op would be a mug to give any money.
Mummy doesn’t need to be encouraging her son in his fecklessness.
Time he grew up.

Obviously not / this reads like some kind of chat show

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. Tell him people without jobs don’t get the luxuries of holidays and he needs to pull his head out of the clouds and knuckle down and get a job. If he wants to be a grown up and play families he needs to act like one too.

Don't give him the money - he won't pay it back.

You need to decide whether he lives at your house or with his GF and kids.

If he calls around a couple of times a week, I'd say he lives with her.

He/GF are potentially committing benefit fraud.

Absolutely don’t lend him the money.

He won’t learn financial responsibility and budgeting skills if you keep bailing him out.

The gf needs to take it up with baby daddy number one if he’s not paying maintenance rather than your son/you making up the shortfall.

Yanbu and this older woman had been borderline abusive putting your son in this position.

He was a child. He should have been focusing on school or training or whatever to build his future, not forced into supporting a family. Obviously having got her pregnant that's a baby whose needs also need to ge considered, but he was still a child.

If your son was a proper adult in this situation (it's not clear if he's since turned 18 but if he has he's barely an adult and more childlike than most) then you would be reasonable to say that you'd only consider lending money if he was already doing everything possible to maximise his income, minimise expenditure and had a clear and viable plan for paying you back. Clearly as he's not doing much about employment, is going ahead with an expensive holiday and has no plan to pay you back you definitely should not make the loan - but as he is so young and immature your pathway is less clear as to what to do instead.

What he should be doing is disengaging from this woman. She is not good for him. He needs to focus on getting some form of training/furthed education to become a productive member of society. He can get a CMA ruling on what he should contribute to the upkeep of his child (it will be a tiny amount at first but will grow once he is earning) and should have regular contact with the child but should not be involved with the child's mother.

However his immaturity will likely prevent him from seeing that this is what he should do. Meanwhile you shouldn't be facilitating his unwise choices.

You'd be stupid to give him money. It's not a loan because he isn't going to pay you back. He's got no job because he couldn't follow basic safety rule and got fired. He tries to guilt you using his gf 's kids.

He's a failure to launch and you've done him no favours enabling that.

Time for him to leave the nest. No money, no help, nothing. The Mom bank is closed. I think it's time to kick him out.

Bag of pasta,jar of dolmio,cornettos..that's the closest you and the brood are getting to Italy on my money..sorted.

As pp once the cash is spent the impetus to payback wouldn't be there and wouldn't be long before your son would be sent round to tap u up for money for something else.

Yabu to refer to it as lending, because they won't pay you back. This won't be a loan. So you need to frame the issue in your mind as should I give him 1.2k. Which it doesn't sound like you can afford.

Oh no, I completely agree with you, its throwing elk steaks to a wolf but what’s her choice? She does it or She didn’t see her son/grandchild.
Fairly simple decision in my mind
This is her life now, cause she fucked up when he was 15 🤷‍♀️

Please don’t give him the money. He’s clearly making poor and impulsive choices (and side note - I agree with the poster who said that people don’t understand until they’ve raised kids to this age and older) and it doesn’t matter how much you tell him this is the one and only time you’ll be able to afford to do this, in his head you’ll always jump in and help and he will
base further future financial poor choices around this.

No is no.

My hard line with my son who has quite significant issues is that I will not support the lifestyle he has chosen for himself. I don’t waver because even £10 will make him think that next time I will hand over more etc. It works better for him for it to be very black and white.

Troubled 18 year olds ARE adults and that’s the problem. Mentally they don’t have the maturity and ability to look after themselves and make sensible choices but legally they can make all of the poor choices they want and you cannot get involved. People saying otherwise will it have had the experience of a child (adult aged or not) who cannot be told, does not respect you, is abusive and/or manipulative of you; or any combination of the above.

Eh? You're telling her to let him grow up but also saying she should give him the money. Give not even lend it? This makes no sense.

So the short version is: he lost his job due to repeated health and safety breaches.
Hes come to you for money - for bills of his adult girlfriend who he lives with part time.
He still plans to go on holiday regardless.
He doesn’t have a job and currently isn’t looking for one?

Don’t lend him the money. His girlfriend’s bills are not your responsibility. They are possibly his. And he should be support his child. The holiday isn’t possible in their current financial situation.
Don’t lend him the money.
His and possibly the girlfriend’s actions are making him suffer. He is making adult decisions - not following health and safety, having a child, living part time with a girlfriend, booking a holiday. When you are an adult you pay for these things yourself. Not your Mum. Hold firm.

That would be a bold move for someone who OP is currently housing.

But if he's actually going to make access to the DC pay per view (and I have to wonder if there's also any free babysitting going on here) then that'll come soon enough regardless. If OP gives them this 1.2k, we all agree there'll be more where that came from. Meaning sooner or later she won't have it to give.