To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

Don't lend it I make that mistake many times and also paid weddings, house deposits, uni fees and I got nothing but abuse, wouldn't ask for a lift as I don't drive, but you won't get any respect or gratitude, so I would advise No

🤔 It is a criminal offense for anyone who is 16 or older to have any kind of sexual contact with someone aged 13, 14 or 15.

The woman he impregnated is actually a rapist as she groomed him and he had no capacity to consent. So it’s completely justifiable to refuse to play along with this in any way financially.

He doesn’t live with her because it would impact her financial situation if he did (benefits). He can also live between houses to flit back and forth avoiding responsibility.

You should ask him to move out OP. I would hate him to go and live with the woman but he has a child with her and you won’t turn his head from her.

Absolutely not. I can’t believe you’re actually asking if you’re being unreasonable.

You have no idea if any of that will ever happen. Unless you are the son or his gf? How long shall she give him to grow up? He wants the adult benefits so he needs to start acting like an adult.

I think it's frankly horrid of you to suggest she "buy" her son's love. She starts doing that and it will never, ever stop. And THAT is what happens more than your utopian scenario.

Don't enable your DS.

He would still like a holiday but he was not bothered enough to keep a job.

I agree, don’t lend it. I also agree with possible undiagnosed ADHD.

If he’s still living with you officially speaking, does that mean they are claiming benefits as though he isn’t there? Because that’s another issue that will bite him on the bum.

I do wish people who don't have a clue wouldn't try and give benefits advice.

This absolutely will not "bite him on the bum" as he is not working. If he was, yes, it might be an issue, although as he's officially living with OP and can prove that, it wouldn't be. It's definitely not a problem anyway, as if he was living with his GF,they'd be entitled to MORE money, not less! Hardly the bite on the bum you think it is.

Anyway,back to the OPs question. No, you are not being unreasonable to not lend him money. They dont need to make memories with kids too young to remember. They need to pay bills, get a job and behave like the grown ups they think they are.
.

Not saying he’s lying but AI is unusual in Italy. It’s really not a regular AI destination.

This!

@Jaxonus YANBU at all. If you give him the money, you will not ever see it again and he will know exactly what string to pull (using the grandchildren as pawns in his sick mind) to keep getting you to give money until you have nothing. Then they'll move in and expect you to get a couple extra jobs to keep them in the style they'd like to have.

IOW--it would never end. You NEED to have money put aside for things like car repairs, house fixes, utility increases, etc. Just tell him you just don't have it to spare. He knows he'll never pay you back.

He should be moving in with his gf and actually start acting like a father. Don't let him use your grandchild/ren as a pawn. It never, ever ends well.

@Jaxonus are they your grandkids? Like actually yours and not the girls and you’re playing make believe? If they’re not. Cut him off. Teach him the hard way.

Fuck me, are you the son?

Youre encouraging the OP who has said she has to be careful with cash, to give up her safety net so her wastrel son and the sexual abuser he is hooked up with can live without working.

All that will happen if the OP follows your advice is that they will squeeze more and more until she has to say stop and then they will withdraw the grandchild anyway.

The son will not become a good father or a better son by being pandered to. The OP will however be poorer and more emotionally attached to the grandchild they are using as a pawn. That is not the mark of a good person, those leopards don't change their spots

I’d lend him money for a DNA test, that could be one way out of this shit show.

Please use full stops.
Please. Please.

Well, they can go ask her parents for money. It's more on them as it is, as it's their pedo daughter.

How is it the girlfriend has unpaid bills, but they are able to go on holiday?

This youth needs a reality check.

You do not mention his father. Boys need fathers in the home.

It is certain that a father's absence means a son is more likely to become delinquent.

Your son has a child. He has no job.
The State is paying all his bills and his girlfriend's bills.

Unless something is done he is likely to fall into drug addiction and crime.

Don’t lend any money, it’s a slippy slope from here. He won’t pay it back and he will just ask for more.

I don’t understand why the son is getting such a hard time on here.

He was doing ok until he was about 14.

At 15 he was groomed, controlled and sexually abused by a 22 year old.

She got pregnant and his entire world turned upside down.

His hobbies, friends, school work were all sidelined because he was in an abusive relationship.

In spite of this, he got an apprenticeship and tried getting a qualification to help pay for his child.

The holiday was already booked before he lost his apprenticeship.

Yes he lost his apprenticeship because he wasn’t given the right support and is now looking for a job.

Has he acted perfectly - no.
But I don’t understand the hate for a boy that was groomed and abused and is struggling.

I don’t think the full amount should be lent but I would not see my grandchild go without and so I’d lend £400 to make sure the kids have what they need.

Your son and his gf are both fuckwits and im fuming that I have to go to work slog my guts out and pay taxes to fund the likes of those lazy twats

There are multiple Italian AIs on TUI

The OP has managed without grandchildren up till now. I'm sure she can go on doing so if she needs to.

The son who was sexually groomed at the age of 15 and then completely let down by school and social services, who took absolutely no action? The woman should have been reported to the police, he was 15 and she was at least 6 years older than him...thats not a close in age relationship

He seems to have tried to do right by his baby. The whole thing is a mess but I can't feel the disgust at the son as many on here do, I think he was groomed and is now in a situation he is struggling to get out of

You can’t see my comments further up literally calling her a nonce?

It is not too late to report this woman to the police and social services for grooming and rape of a minor.

Is your son 100% certain he is the father of her baby?

You owe absolutely nothing to her or her eldest child. Do not give any money over. They will expect you to keep stumping up. Your son is an absolute fool, and needs to learn a hard lesson fast, which he won't if you just bail him out.

He lives with an adult woman. San pay for what she needs