To refuse to lend DS £1,200 when he's still booked to go on holiday?

[Jaxonus]

I don't know what to do for the best as whatever I do frrls wrong
It's been a nightmare few years (probably 4) with DS and I thought we were through the other side but now I don't know

It's too long to list but something changed and he didn't care about his behaviour or school, he wasn't ever academic and was much better at practical type lessons but he was well behaved up until then but he seemed to enjoy being the class cleon and no matter what punishment he got he didn't care and in fact found it funny. He was also fixated on girls and I spoke to him multiple times about how he was treating them but that didn't go in either

When he was 16 announced he had a gf and she was pregnant but was cagy and defensive about other details and told me to stop questioning him. In the end it turned out he was lying and on a dating app and his gf was 22, she apparently knew his real age and didn't mind which I didn't believe but it later turned our that it was true.

She already had a child and ds seemed to have taken on the father role for both children. I know people will judge me especially because of the age gap but I didn't know what to do and if I went all in with anger and disapproval it would have just pushed him away when we didn't have the best relationship as it was. He’d just turned 16 and I found out about 2 months before she gave birth and he would have been 15 when baby was conceived and I did call his school and tried to speak to safeguarding as he was under the age of consent but nothing really was done and he ended up failing his gcses

He spent a year doing nothing pretty much apart from the bare minimum at college but his attendance was atrocious, he gave up rugby and he spent most of his time with her and if not in his room

Then last year he got an apprenticeship in carpentry and he seemed to enjoy it and I thought great, I bought him decent boots, gave him lifts on the odd few occasions he needed me to if the buses were unreliable due to the weather or something, lend him money if he was short until payday etc. And it was going great but he ended up losing it a few weeks ago die to health and safety, there wasn't a huge incident it was a bunch of things and his bosses were probably more patient than some would've been but he threw it back into their faces

He’d been spoken to multiple times about not having the right gear, taking shortcuts, climbing where he shouldn't, stupid little things that he shouldve known better for. According to him everyone else did it but whether they did or not is here nor there as they kept warning him until they'd had enough. He's convinced they just wanted rid of him and are using this as an excuse

Since then, he says he's applied for a few jobs but then circles back and says there's no jobs anyway. He's back to spending most his time in his room or with his gf even during weekdays when the children are at school or nursery as his gf doesn't work dur to a health condition. I've always been polite to her for my grandchild's sake but I don't agree with the choices they make

He still lives here officially and came home yesterday and asked me to lend him money, apparently £1,200 for his gf as she needs it for bills and there's some issue with child maintenance for the older child's dad, he kept saying it was only temporary and he/she would pay me back, I said no and he's turned it on me saying I don't care and he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

The thing is, I could potentially do it but i’d be stretched but the reason I said no was because in a few weeks he's booked to go to Italy with her and the children, he booked it using his government trust fund he got at 18, which I told him to be careful with but no he knows best and booked a holiday

I mentioned it yesterday and he said it's different as it's already been booked and the children are excited and I can't tell him to upset a 5 and 2 year old by csncelling and they'd lose some money anyway. They've never been abroad and want to make memories etc (which they could do here and go next year or when they have more money)

I'm not made of money but I'm careful because I have to be and I do have money put away for emergencies like car repairs or things like that. He's barely spoken to me and apparently I'm unsupportive. I've mentioned jobs again and he said he'll look properly after their holiday but repeated there's no jobs anywhere

If he'd actually been looking and cancelled id maybe I wouldn't have hesitated but he isn't helping himself or anyone But he's accused of me making the children suffer but I don't see how I am

AIBU for refusing?

Sorry I wasn’t the clearest earlier - give not lend, they can’t afford to pay it back so you won’t get the money back, it would only cause resentment both ways. As the outcome would be the same, I’d go with give not pretend it’s a loan.

If they genuinely have bills to pay, then give it, don’t try to control how he spends his money, treat him as an adult asking for help. But be clear he needs to move out and be a family.

I might also question if the dcs have passports already, and if the step-child’s dad needs to give permission etc, but don’t give advice now. Let it fail or not.

I would also say when gifting the money, you don’t want it back, but this is a one off gift. (In my mind it’s like if he was moving out on his own, you’d probably give him something towards his setting up costs,)

I appreciate it may not be your experience but it's definitely been my experience and by the sounds of this thread, an experience of multiple other people.

He may well grow up, take responsibility and realise that the world and his mother doesn't owe him a living. But if he's anything like the young men in my family, he will continue to doss around, expect his mum to drop everything to babysit, use her as a cash machine whilst he continues to spend his days sleeping in till 3pm then playing the PS5 whilst contributing the square root of 0 to the household.

The GF being a groomer and nonce is all the more reason not to give her £1200 of course.

OP said she has “a bit” put by for emergencies and only because she’s careful as she has to be. She said she could potentially loan the £1200 because of her emergency fund but it would be a stretch. I don’t think she would be spending money on nails by the sounds of it or frittering away £100 without a second thought. I think really it’s her son who is jeopardising the relationship, if you are prepared to cut someone off because they won’t lend you money that’s not on the person who won’t lend you the money.

The children are 2 and 5. They will have no real.underatanding of a holiday and are young enough to be 'disappointed' over not going.

This woman had sex with your son when he was under age and got pregnant with a second child despite already having one child and being too ill to work. Out of interest what is the health condition?

Now I expect they are playing the system to enhance her claim by saying that you son lives with you.

Now you are expected to subsidise her other child because that useless father probably doesn't work etc etc.

I wouldn't give them any money. You can give what you don't have. Just say you don't have it, in the same way that they don't have it.

How do you know he will get a job and be a good father and partner?

What OP has described matches none of the above predictions. And she’s obviously his mother so sees him in the best light possible, as all parents do.

He seems incapable of holding down a job (actually, not interested in them much), I also don’t think fathering a baby at 15 is a sign of being a good dad. If it’s so tight financially, why did he book a holiday? A good dad and partner would first ensure basic bills are met. He would save the government trust fund or at least part of it, for the future, if he didn’t have a cushion.

You decide to create a baby at 15/16, you assume the consequences. OP shouldn’t fund their holiday or lifestyle, if they don’t appear as responsible as they should be as parents. Particularly her son…

He and his girlfriend are totally irresponsible freeloaders. I dont think you should lend him the money under these circumstances.

But again you have to look at whose fault is ?that the time to parent was when these people were 15 if you didn’t do it and you didn’t launch them like some of the wonderful children here that are also so successful with their masters degree - that didn’t happen in isolation, so the price you pay for not doing the hard yards at the beginning is £1200 for now
I can also guarantee all of these people saying they’d cast him into the night if it was their children they wouldn’t
You see all the time with drug addicts and alcoholics gamers. It’s still your son or daughter.
People generally love their children
And it’s very easy to be harsh with other people’s on the Internet
They wouldn’t do the same if it was theirs

You have been too lenient with him and now is the time to learn to say enough. Why isn't he living with this woman ( i know the reason) ,He has children to support so he needs to GTFU. Don;t give him they money.

The OP is asking for advice as she obviously suspects giving them free cash won’t do them any favours or help them learn anything.

You’re saying that if by the age of 15 you haven’t “parented” (I’m sure you have, OP), you should just perpetuate the cycle and fund your adult child’s mistakes forever? Because that’s the price you pay? What you say makes no sense.

Don't lend him the money, OP. It won't help your relationship in the long run when you're under financial pressure and he comes back for more. Is his GF in contact with her parents to ask for a loan?

No, don't lend him the money - you know it isn't a loan anyway.
He needs to start being responsible and you can't bail him out.

I think he's got ADHD or something.

I wouldn't even buy him food. My dad bought a relative £300 worth of food and they sold it all for cheap to get some cash.

Why should you cover someone else's kid and child maintenance? Absolute madness.

OP, do you think your son has any special needs given his track record at school and his carelessness around health and safety at work? I don’t mean to pathologise him but ADHD springs to mind as it sounds like he doesn’t think ahead and consider consequences. And not to use this as an excuse for behaviour but possibly there is something underlying his behaviour as opposed to just him not being very nice? I agree with the poster that the toxic or manipulative aspect of his behaviour needs pointing out to him. He could be unaware of this and just reacting emotionally to not getting his own way.

Yes this. “He needs to understand”. He won’t though will he. If you want to give it do it but I doubt he’s going to pay it back and would criticise you if he ever reminded him of it.
if he wants to weaponise the children let him. Using his children to blackmail you is low. I don’t agree with people saying it’s worth paying to keep the relationship. That’s not a relationship I would ever want to have. You give, they take. He will keep doing it. You don’t give money when he asks- you lose access. You don’t babysit when he asks - you lose access. You look at them funny - you lose access.

Let him know that its him losing something if he does it and its him taking something away from his kids. Don’t chase or beg.

He didn’t make one bad choice, he’s made many and continues to do so. He didn’t lose his job by redundancy he lost it by not following the rules over and over again. He put himself in this position and expects you to pay for it.

This is a form of domestic abuse.

You can be the best parent in the world and still have kids turn out like this.

And as regards the rest - I kicked my eldest son out when he was 17. He didn't want to be parented or told what to do - he wanted to live his best life but it was coming at the expense of the rest of the family and all his siblings.

He turned his life around and is now married, a good dad and he and I have an excellent relationship. So don't say that we won't practice what we preach, because sometimes you HAVE to.

The choice was parent earlier or support financially emotionally physically later. I think the saying is you either raise your kids properly and the reward is you get to enjoy your grandchildren,
Or you spoil your kids and then you get to raise the grandchildren instead that’s what she’s gonna have to do for now
And just be grateful, the money is going on a trip to Italy not crack

Yeah.

he's weaponsing contact with the grandchildren now

He needs OP's money more than OP needs him draining her. This will not be a one time thing and if she caves, he'll be demanding more and more. He'll raise this threat again. She will never have a stable relationship with the kids. They're his pawns and he uses them like he uses her.

He was a victim of grooming and sexual abuse but that doesn't excuse his choice to try to drain his mom's finances. He's now an adult who has made bad choices and he's trying to get his mom to finance his life when he can't be bothered to work or follow the rules at a workplace.

You are living in a dream world

How is he going to find the spending money for the holiday ?

How do you know what the OP spends her money on? Not of us would waste money like that. And the issue here is why should OP bail him out when he is wasting money on a holiday.

No, you dont give 1200 to a woman who groomed your 15 year old son when she was 22. Have you ever had a conversation with him about that? Does he know its not okay?

I don't get this message. The first half is brutal and the second half is understanding.

But anyway, here's the thing: my DS21 has just received a first class degree from Warwick and my DS23 is what Mumsnetters call a failure to launch. I'd argue that it's nothing to do with my parenting and everything to do with them both being autistic but having different skill sets (hate that term - v mumsnet business speech) and very different personalities. One fits in with the world of academia and one doesn't.