Vegans

[Theyreeatingthedogs]

I find them a bit meh. I'm happy for them to do their own thing if they leave me alone. I think this is overstepping. Do vegans not have pets? After all, keeping pets is just forcing animals to live and be controlled by humans.

BBC News - Darlington birds of prey event cancelled after vegan groups' concern - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6214l61604o?app-referrer=deep-link

Meh, I was a vegetarian for 12 years and vegan for 4 of those years. I never announced it and the only time people needed to know was if they were cooking food I was going to eat. I don’t like anyone who feels the need to announce themselves and their beliefs/dietary requirements to everyone and their dog.

Oh please. 'Rhetoric that gets people's backs up'? Have you rtft? Lots of sneers about healthy eaters/vegans and veggies. Unclench!

Works well for lots of people. Chickpeas and other legumes for example full of nutrients but some people prefer animals suffering in slaughterhouses so they can eat burgers for some reason.

I didnt do anything. Other sites. What horse shit. I was the one getting bullied.

@Gloriia im genuinely curious… would you judge someone eating a chicken salad in the same way as someone scoffing a pork pie?

Did you raise your children as vegetarians / vegans? And if you did - do they remain so?

Honestly, you got banned for “don’t nothing wrong”… sounds like a 12 year old making up an excuse.

What did you do that was “nothing wrong” ?

The vegan ethos is flawed. The idea that we can eat and live without inconveniencing animals is nonsense. Veganism like any idea taken to the extreme is nonsense. Every fruit is pollinated by insects, water is filtered through fossilised remains. We live in an ecosystem where everything is connected and it is simply not possible to avoid all animal products.

We do however need to eat less meat and dairy, what we are doing now is not sustainable. We also need to do better when it comes to animals in captivity, animal testing and animal cruelty in general.

Yeah no farm animals is the goal, and I accept that some species will go extinct, such as the domestic chicken. I have rescue chickens from the egg industry and honestly, extinction seems like the best option for them. Birds aren’t designed to lay an egg every day. Their bodies can’t cope. Many of them die of infections related to wonky egg production and the egg cracking inside them.

Similar story with turkeys, they aren’t designed to be that big and heavy, they struggle throughout their lives with their immense size. Although I once had turkey hen that hadn’t been “institutionalised”, she escaped from her farm as a chick, was picked up on the road, taken to a sanctuary, and ended up with us. Interestingly she never grew to the same size as other turkeys do, and was a capable flier throughout her life.

But anyway long story short, yes I would like to see no farm animals, or pets. Zoos can be a grey area for me. I’m against the for profit ones, but I’m not against the ones that allow visitors as a way of raising money for conservation work. As long as the animals are all rescues who were taken to the zoo as they couldn’t survive in the wild, rather than they were bred specifically to be an attraction.

Former farm land used for grazing should be used for rewilding to support the environment and wildlife, or growing food for humans. The swathes of land currently used to grow maize or soy for feeding farm animals could be put to better use too.

Wild animals will carry on as they are, I don’t think getting rid of farm animals would affect them? I could be wrong.

Of course this “end goal” is a long way away and if we get there, it’ll be slow, so we’ll learn and adapt as we go. There remain questions around what we would do about fertiliser, and feeding carnivore animals who remain in captivity such as sanctuaries. We don’t need to figure out what will and won’t work right away. For now, I’d just like to see fewer animals suffering at the hands of humans.

Sorry I feel like I’ve taken over this thread a bit. I do really enjoy talking about veganism when it is genuine questions and not just “mmm bacon”!

Sorry @clarinsgirl but you clearly have no clue what the vegan ethos is, if that's what you want to call it.
Also, I think we do a bit more than "inconvenience" animals right now.

This is exactly what I meant by the notion becoming nonsense when taken to the extreme. Humans could stop eating meat, but animals would continue to eat meat because that’s how the world works.

What would happen to the pet dogs and cats? They all die? Form packs and eat all rabbits? The world just doesn’t work is this fairytale version.

Surely an end to intensive farming, reduced meat and dairy consumption and better animal welfare would be a much better outcome rather than all of the animals we eat simply becoming extinct?

The animal welfare groups in the article wrote to the museum to make them aware of their concerns about the birds. It seems they acted respectfully in how they asked the museum not to hire a company who exploit animals. The museum decided that they didn't want to be involved with companies that exploit animals. What is the issue?

I do understand the vegan ethos and I stand by my point. We cannot eat and live without involving animals. And I completely agree that that we do much more than inconvenience animals right now and as I’ve started, intensive farming practices are not ethical or sustainable and there are not punishments harsh enough for those who harm animals.

You could read into what scientists, conservationists, farmers and other experts think could/would happen if the world went vegan. They have great ideas for stopping species going extinct, making sure soil has nutrients, how the world would look, improvements to the environment etc. It is very interesting.

People were being aholes on here and i bite bacj when i shouldnt

Ok so the picture is emerging

You were abusive

If what you mean by vegan is that we stop eating dairy and meat then I completely agree. But the vegan ethos goes much further. Avocados aren’t vegan because they can’t be commercially produced without bringing in bees, we shouldn’t keep pets, figs aren’t vegan because a wasp dies in pollination.

The idea of not eating meat, fish and dairy is completely reasonable. The idea of telling everyone else what they can eat and trying to create the fairytale world described earlier is not reasonable.

I do find that most vegans I meet are irritatingly smug and evangelical.

@clarinsgirl they use a hormone spray now for pollinating figs, commercially at least. Which is good.

It definitely wasn’t nothing.

I am vegan and was on a lot of vegan threads that she was vile on. I remember it well as I’m sure many others do @Midnighttilmorning. A friend of mine actually deactivated her account due to that poster.

My vegan DD chooses something labelled ‘vegan festive’ and eats the vegetables too.

I had a friend who was insufferable in the way you describe. Probably still is,

That's the whole problem as far as I am concerned. Or much of it at least. Our numbers and lifestyles demand that food is produced commercially. And it's that which has led to many of the world's problems. I have no problem in benefitting from animal activity so long as we don't just take, take, take. Bees for example are quite welcome to pollenate plants because that is what they do. Naturally. The "bringing in bees" is the problematic part.

Pets I am afraid I am against. And I say that as a dog lover and owner.
If you'd be out on our morning walk with us this morning you might feel the same. Three dogs, bad examples of breeds which should never have existed, with idiot, and in one case a highly abusive, owners causing problems for me and my dog. And that is of course nothing when you consider the miserable lives that millions of 'pet' animals are forced to live.

I see what you are saying but taking a more moderate position is likely to gain much more traction. What I mean is that let’s not ban pets because there are some shitty breeders and shitty owners, let’s do a better job of loving the animals we have, coming down harder on breeders and owners who fail, maybe licensing, let’s change over time how we think about pets. Let’s tackle the kennel club et al on overbreeding.

Rather than banning meat production, consult, change, move away from barbaric practices and bring food production more local and less intense, naturally increasing prices and lowering consumption. I realise it’s not that simple but you get the gist.

The extreme or ‘evangelical’ position loses people and is almost impossible to defend.

I say this by the way as someone who has been vegetarian since the late 80’s and who cut out diary a decade ago- so what most would consider a vegan but that not what I think I am.

I’ve been vegan 13 years now and find this protest a bit daft tbh. Obviously I think animals should be treated well, as I’m sure most non vegans do too! I’ve volunteered at owl/birds of prey centres previously and all the animals were treated very well. During shows if the birds didn’t want to perform then they just didn’t, it’s not like they’re being forced to do it, and I don’t think it would be physically possible to force them either. Most of the time it helps to educate people on the animals too, which in my opinion I think is a really good cause!
I know some other vegans would call me ‘not a proper vegan’ for the way I am. My kids and partner aren’t vegan or vegetarian. I just like to do my own thing my way haha.

This all feels a bit 1990s to me!

I eat meat and fish. No one give’s a rats arse in my circle whether someone is a vegetarian, vegan or meat eater. We all just rub along and it’s never discussed. Ever