Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

@buffyajp what is my prejudice then?
What bit am I misunderstanding/misrepresenting?

If she's old enough to make that sort of comment she's old enogh yo deal eith the fall out

I think your son is in the wrong here, sorry. Yes she was out of line and needs to be spoken to and I hope her parents challenge her on her homophobic language and explain why it was hurtful to him. Kindly, it seems like you are all making him being gay the defining factor in your lives. I’m not saying he hasn’t struggled and my god I’d defend my child til the cows came home and then some but it’s not really helping him with constantly creating a victim narrative. Maybe his friendship struggles ARE related to his sexuality or maybe he is using it as an excuse because he’s struggling socially and other factors are at play. He stormed off and wouldn’t apologise? He thinks his words weren’t as bad as hers? It’s very him him and as his mum you obviously want to make him feel validated and secure and happy but what he said was out of order. You can’t fight homophobia with misogyny. They don’t cancel each other out in a battle of who has it harder. Calling her a bitch is vile, it’s a term rooted in sexism, degradation and male anger and entitlement. Telling her to fuck off is horrid, she’s 8! His language is unacceptable and he needs to know that and be told that being gay isn’t a get out of jail free card you can all use when something doesn’t go your way. It’s fantastic he’s open about being gay, it’s great that you are so supportive and have his back but meeting any perceived slight with that level of aggression isn’t ok.

It seems like your son will have a lifetime of trouble with his reactions.
Coming out at 10, telling everyone about his crushes (including young children) then huge outbursts when he gets a reaction he doesn't like followed along by a mother who thinks people should be apologising to him and never discriminating against him.
Unfortunately this is the real world and he'll always get called names, especially if he's making a point of going on about it.
Society has moved on a hell of a lot but if he screams and swears everytime someone calls him a name he's going to be a mess by the time he's an adult.

That’s quite chilling, what level of punishment do you think an 8 year old should be given?

If my 6 year old daughter used a homophobic or racist insult and got sworn at in return, I would be saying that such language can hurt people badly and that she can expect people to get very angry if she chooses to use it. But that the other child shouldn’t have used bad words either. And I would expect each child to apologise to the other. Ultimately though it’s natural consequences, the 8 year old mightn’t be so quick to use homophobic insults again.

Not a girl.

An 8 year old.

A little kid ffs.

@TheNoisyDeer It sounds like your neighbours and their daughters are doing a really good job of creating a new misogynist.

Your neighbour's daughters don't seem to realise that when women act like assholes to men, men will also act like assholes.

By the way, the little girl's insult was a lot worse. It was directed at DS's character and was a personal attack. Calling someone a "stupid bitch" is a generic insult.

I appreciate I’m not in England though where I understand swearing may be seen as worse than it is where I am.

Why is a child in Y6 ‘coming out’?! We’ve lost our minds. This isn’t really alright.
on the other hand, calling him a gay boy in an insulting way is unacceptable. Maybe she didn’t mean to insult him? Who knows. He shouldn’t have used language like he did.
I don’t think it’s a biggie tbh, just move on. Your DS needs to toughen up. It’s a hard old world out there.

This

What is going on that kids that young (and with his female friends) are talking like adults about crushes and fancying etc

The other kid is 8, Im not even sure 8 year olds can even be homophobic or any of the phobics, I dont agree with many on this forum of labelling young kids with various accusions of racism/misogyny/homophobia and anything else

They're kids, they say unkind things, out of needing to shock or a reaction or stupidity quite often. It needs challenge but the posters on this thread are doing a word bingo with who can say homophobic or misogyny more often and who is more or who is less

Its ridiculous. They both need a telling off. Her parents probably left because their very young child was sworn at aggressively, whereas she just made a stupid comment.

Also in fairness my son doesn’t talk about crushes (nor being gay except that first time he told us).

Thats right, can you imagine some 13 lad talking about his crushes on girls and who he fancies and sharing that information in front of an 8 year old girl. This forum would be right down on him for being a predator and objectifying girls blah blah blah. Someone would mention the police and 'safeguarding' no doubt.

Weird is worse than fuck off stupid bitch?

Your son's behaviour is unacceptable, obviously.

That being said, he's going through a rough time, and it sounds like he just flipped because of what's happening at school. I'm gay, and unless you've gone through the struggle of having to come to terms with your sexuality and have to put up with homophobia, you can't possibly know how this feels. Because you come out over and over again, and it sucks dealing with people's responses, and it sucks never knowing if someone will mock you or abuse you. I am an adult and can control my responses, your son is a child going through a hard time. Encourage him to apologise when he's in a calmer frame of mind. The parents should obviously be talking to their daughter as well, in an educational kind of way. She should also apologise. 8 years old is old enough to know you have been unkind.

Also there are some weird lines of chat on this thread- I remember being in school, and from the moment you hit secondary school, crushes were a pretty bog standard topic of conversation between teens!!! Did none of you have crushes? Secondary school is the prime time to start talking about crushes.

And calling a hormonal 13 year old a misogynist because they've lost it in the moment is wild. Be real. We lose it sometimes as adults and say things we don't mean. This is an emotionally vulnerable kid who is angry because people keep being cruel about something he can't change.

Typical MN

Rife with Homophobia and abuse because it's a teenager boy...

Most people don't use "bitch" thinking of misogyny, it's just an insult like "cow", "cock", "arsehole" etc.

What he said was rude and mean but the 8 year old said something he also found highly offensive

Would posters be so forgiving had it been racist language by the 8 year old?

Lots of people defending the 8 year old. There are some sweet, innocent 8 year olds and then there are some that can be cruel and spiteful. Let's be honest, she wasn't being kind when she called him a gay boy now was she? She could be an older year 3 child, possibly a younger year 4. Those few months in development can make a difference in maturity and knowing right from wrong. Perhaps her parents reaction (not pulling her up on her language) could give us an insight into her behaviour; has she heard it from them? Or is she used to behaving badly and getting away with it?

I'm not a big fan of children swearing, but I think your son's outburst could possibly be excused if he's been taunted one too many times and he's snapped.

The part where you excused her homophobia as "denting his pride..."

Am I living on Mars or is 10 very young to come out?

Shocked but not really to see so many mn posters with the “but she made him do it! He only reacted like that because of her! He shouldn’t be held responsible for his actions!!”

He was far too young to decide he has 'come out' at the age of 10. Both are children and both are trying to deal with adult themes and language. This has led to these problems.

Older boys shouldn’t be discussing their crushes with younger children.

It is on the young side but speak to many gay or lesbian people and they'll likely confirm they knew from a young age.

You know full well that laughing, calling him weird and "gay boy" wasn't just saying he was a boy who was gay...

And discussing crushes isn't sexual. You're the one sexualising a child

Your son’s behaviour was unacceptable- a 13 year old should not be behaving in this way. His sexuality should not be a free pass for poor behaviour towards anyone