Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

An 8 year old may not understand all the nuance but they know laughing and calling someone weird for being different is hurtful and mean

And her actions were still homophobic, whether she understands that or not

What?

Ok this thread is something someone has made up to garner responses for some reason.

Surely nobody really thinks a 13 year old and an 8 year old are on the same level? Surely nobody thinks a 13 year old can be excused for calling an 8 year old a bitch?

Yes I can’t say any of mine have been caught or heard discussing crushes with friends or family children but I’ve no doubt at school with their mates they do.

Talk of a girlfriend or boyfriend yes but not who they fancy.

I tend to agree with some other posters that this wee lad seems to be very wrapped up in being gay rather than just being a person. Which may well be what’s putting his peers off. Gay has become his whole personality.

But the op made it clear the talking about crushes was only with friends when they brought it up. There's also no evidence in ops posts that suggest his sexuality is his only identity just that he's been bullied and isolated for it. My teenagers (the three that I've raised) haven't had much of an issue discussing crushes and don't tend to pay much attention to where their 8 year old sister or her friends are unless they're directly being bothered by them. They don't pay attention. I do because I'm the parent. The kids may have been at a distance from the parents. Op hasn't described the location the kids were at either. Some of your comments about his sexuality being his only identity are also concerning from someone involved with impressionable teenagers on a day to day basis. You've also made comments about sexualising children out of the blue. There is no evidence of this in any of op's posts. I'd bet for everyone of us who's kids do one thing there are 5 others who's kid's are different with different understanding of things or who do completely different things.

This, there are many many posters on this thread who seem to be taking delight at an 8yo being told she’s a bitch and should be punished… grim! @mnhq this is getting uncomfortable

The rampant homophobia is disgusting on here

Yes the rampant homophobia on here is very uncomfortable

What is it on op's posts suggest being gay is his only personality trait and also what is a gay personality?

You think it's homophobic to point out the discrepancy between an 8 year old and a 13 year old?

The age difference is the same as between a three year old and an eight year old, or a thirteen year old and an eighteen year old. Obviously.

I think his reaction was so severe, disproportionate and horrible that it totally turned the table on who the victim was. "Gay boy" maybe unpleasant if said as a taunt (though nothing compared to a homophobic insult, tbh), but calling 8 year old a "stupid bitch" is a bit much. Good job he did not punch her, I guess you would have justified that, too?

The homophobic adding to the narrative is really showing

The police who took my son's second ABH statement charged the boy who had beaten him up with aggravating factors because he was calling my son "gay boy" when he hit him and spat on him. My son was 14 and funnily enough not gay not that it's relevant.

The fact that even the comments about school friends is all about also sharing his crushes and that it seeming his being gay his crushes are the problem.

Nothing else about friendships in general. The boys don’t want him as they don’t want to hear who he fancies out of them. The girls don’t want to hear who he fancies and he only moved to them when the boys didn’t want him.

Maybe stop making his friendships and conversations all about who he fancies.

It’s weird for that to be your only conversation that the only thing he wants to share is what boys he fancies. Making his sexuality his only conversation basically and it’s putting off both sexes as friends. I’d also say it would off a future boyfriend as well.

I’d say the same if it was a straight boy only talking about which girls he wants constantly.

It would still be weird for that to be the only conversation you’ve got. Girls certainly wouldn’t want to be hanging around with a boy like that.

You are trying to impose adult standards of behaviour and sexual identity politics on to children. That is wrong. They are not equipped for this. So of course they say things that would be inappropriate for adults. That's not terribly blameworthy.

I also think it's odd that your son has come out at such an unusually young age and that you are indulging this. Not indulging in the sense of it being wrong to be gay. It is not.

But indulging it by defining his character through it at such a young age. For many children their teenage years involve discovering their sexual identity and it is not unusual for children's feelings to not be settled and evolve through this period.

That's because he was beating him up, so anything indicating hecwas beating him up because of a protected chararistic makes it a hate crime.

Exactly the same as if a boy was calling a girl a stupid bitch while beating her up would be.

A thirteen year old beating an eight year old up, or a nineteen year old beating a fourteen year old up, would also be worse than same age children or teenagers, because of the power and developmental imbalance.

Its so disingenuous to ignore that the age gap means this is not a an incident between peers.

I think it's homophobic to keep saying that DS has made being gay his whole personality, to say he shouldn't be talking about crushes, to make out his talk was sexual because he's gay, to excuse the 8 year olds behaviour and language, to make out DS only wants to do football to check out boys

All of which has been said here

The op gave context not that his only conversation is this. There's nothing to suggest he told any boy he fancies them. He clearly likes football that's in the op's posts. You've added a lot of stuff that's not there because you are speculating this is why he has no friends. Maybe the area he's in is incredibly homophobic and he's getting horribly bullied. Maybe he's just a bit antisocial. We don't know but you have focused in on the gay personality thing. There's very little to back any of anyone's theories up and yet your making homophobic assumptions. No-one ever says she/he is making their straightness their only personality.

It has been repeatedly explain that Gay Boy is indeed a homophobic slur. Add in the laughing and calling it weird and its clearly homophobic abuse

He shouldn't have called her a bitch, I've never said he should, but I can understand why he said it

You're the one using what ifs

The point I was making is that gay boy is homophobic language. Yes there's a difference in ages. Is anyone in the right here? No, no they are not. Everyone needs a really good talking too and apology notes all round.

I agree with this, thinking about my own teenagers. Also, there is a huge difference in age between an 11 year old and a 13 year old. I can’t imagine my DS14 discussing his crushes with a 12yo neighbour let alone in front of a much younger sibling and a group of 4 parents.

I run an activity group where 11 and 13 year olds are in the same group. They talk to each other about all sorts. Including who they fancy

It's not unusual

Really sorry for your son, but slightly different situation, dont you think?

Example: calling someone "autistic" and calling someone "autistic" while beating them up and spitting on them.

Calling some weird whilst calling them autistic and laughing at them...

I never said "gay boy" was not a taunt/ insult and I also acknowledged that the poor lad probably been triggered because of prior abuse. "Gay Boy" is used at schools a lot - sometimes in a homophobic way, sometimes just as a general insult - so the little girl could have heard other kids using it without fully being aware of what it means.

But. Calling her "bitch" is way out of order. And, if he did not react like this, the other family would have not been able to get on their high horse and sweep her saying this insult under the carpet, like they seemed to have done.

Ask anyone to tell you what is more offensive - "gay boy" or "stupid bitch fuck off" and I can bet people will not go for the former...