Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

They are not more worldly now than we were. Strange language, puts adult understanding on to small children
This is a teaching moment. Little kids don't come with a preset moral vocabulary
You explain gay if they don't fully get it. Explain why it's offensive. Chide them for teasing. Ask any questions, explain why the other party was upset, and then you move on.
But what you don't get to do is teach them that it's okay for teenage boys to berate them and call them names. He could have called her anything, but went straight to bitch
That tells me a lot, because he is old enough to know better
Bullying is a campaign. At 8 they pick on differences. Could be appearance/social/anything. That's where the school come in. Totally different circumstances and not acceptable. But not one offhand comment from a much smaller child

I’d have responded the same as your son tbh! YANBU

She’s 8, she doesn’t fully understand, I’m not sure I’d class this as homophobia due to her young sge. I feel your sons behaviour was though completely unacceptable in response to it, and the language used not ok, and at 13 h4 does understand this.

i feel you’re being defensive over your son , and won’t accept this little girl didn’t mean the level of harm you’ve embedded in this. And as such I think there is no way for the friendship to continue.

my position is your son needs to apologise, explain he was triggered, and that he accepts she’s 8 and likely didn’t fully understand. I’d then expect her to say she didn’t mean to offend to this extent snd she’s sorry, she likely has not encountered homosexuality before or is it something much in her orbit. Not at 8,

snd I will also state my child is gay. And you’re doing your son no favours in accepting this type of behaviour.

Yes I'd say 11. Either way an older boy telling her to fuck off and she's a stupid bitch is disgusting.

I have sons no daughters so I'm not anti boy here but I'd be disgusted in my sons if they'd ever used that kind of language to a little kid.

Your son was unreasonable to speak to anyone like that. Even if the girl was 13 it would have been unacceptable. He is gay and boy so he should have owned it- "yes i am and there's nothing wrong with it."

He needs to learn not escalate. I bet he wouldn't have jumped up and sworn at an older boy would he- he picked an easy target.

Also she's 8, why on earth is he discussing sexual desires with or around her?! You need to teach him what's acceptable conversation with small children.

Oh that’s a bit much, you’ve no idea where she heard this and I doubt it was the parents, very few adults use that term, so likely school.

Sorry OP, but your son is in senior school and this was an 8yr old. She called him 'gay boy' and honestly at 8yrs old probably didn't understand the full meaning.

Your son was way way way out of line and no wonder he hasn't got any friends - either with behaviour and outbursts like that or from just being utterly incapable of reading a social situation.

If he'd have kept his cool and said something like - you don't say things like that, then it would have been her in trouble. Her comment was absolutely unacceptable, she absolutely should have been told off but she's still learning. She's what, Year 4?

For him to come back at you and argue the toss that she'd been horrible to him first - shows an appauling lack of maturity.

He needs help OP - likely with his self-esteem and managing his anger. Seriously. He's 13yrs old. She's 8yrs. Wake up.

Your reaction is bizarre. No wonder they left!! You went back outside to make excuses for a teenage lad - 5yrs older than this primary school girl when he called her a stupid bitch and to f off.....

Brush this under the carpet at your own perile.

Nobody at all should have been talking about crushes in that circumstance. Doesn’t matter what their sexuality is. 13 to 11 is a huge maturity gap. 13 to 8 far more so. You need to talk to your DS about appropriate conversations by age. That’s nothing to do with sexuality

It doesn't even matter if the girl was unreasonable, he definitely was and he's your child.

"She started it" sound pathetic when talking about an 8year old vs a 13yo. When my 1yo hits my 3yo she knows not to hit back but to stop the situation and move away. How does your 13yo not understand the same?

you would also tell an 8 yo she is a stupid bitch and to
fuck off?
-get down with your bad self… you are so righteous and everyone is impressed..

Not to the 8 year old - to her parents - the “friends”! But I won’t type it out (and I’m fairness probably wouldn’t have said it either - but since my son came out to me homophobia makes me feel visceral physical protective rage. I am trying to feel how I would feel if someone called my young daughter a bitch - I suspect not very well but the protective fury re homophobia seems very raw. Certainly I’ve been called and have called people bitches (infrequently in my life! ) and it certainly hasn’t hit my (or their) inner core like I suspect using a homophobic slur on someone struggling would.

The child was 8. He called an 8 year old a stupid bitch and told her to fuck off. That's much worse than a comment she wouldn't have understood.

I think the point was that 13 is quite young for anybody to be discussing crushes regularly with their friends, not because his crushes happen to be male!

There is also this, he was the elder child. He lacks boundaries. And it may explain why h4 is struggling with his own friendships, with kids his age,

being gay is not unusual at this age, he’s turning it into his Waterloo.

I've worked with children and young people and I have teens. I've not heard a child use that term since I was a child myself. None of the children or teens I've been around bat an eyelid at someone being gay. I suppose it could be area dependent as OP says her son was the butt of jokes.

If I was him, yes. Bit confused about your tone!

Ah so your son deserves better protection and is more sensitive… because he is gay?
is that not worse, you’d honestly be more upset by a child calling your son weird, than your
8 yo being called a stupid bitch and getting told to fuck
off?

This really
At 8 they really don’t understand like a 13 year old does and his language towards a younger child was absolutely unacceptable - does he always speak like this and swear at people? I’d be more upset about this to be honest.

I mean that you seem to think that you are awesome and righteous in telling an 8 yo she is a stupid bitch and to fuck off.

The age difference here is very significant.
She may never have come across someone who’s same sex attracted so it will be unusual for her - she needs educating. He, however, will have chosen words that he’s clearly heard and possibly used before, knowing that they’re unacceptable. He needs to be held to account. In addition, from some people’s reactions on here calling an 8 year old a ‘bitch’, maybe this boy is living around people just like you.

Why is a 13 years old boy talking about crushes within earshot of an 8 years old?
Why is a boy insulting a girl using such horrible language?
The biggest problem here is that DS shows zero understanding of what is acceptable behaviour and age appropriate conversations.
OP, your neighbours’ children are not your problem. Your DS’s attitude is very poor and he is growing up being obsessed and defined by his sexuality , with a very poor treatment of girls. Does he have any hobbies, is he part of any sports clubs? Is he doing anything meaningful apart from going to school? He needs to expand his sphere of interests and he absolutely must learn to treat girls in a polite manner.

She's 8, EIGHT. You are being ridiculous and your son is in the wrong here, totally unacceptable behaviour towards a young child.

Seriously? You should be ashamed of yourself.

It depends on exactly what the girl said, the tone, and whether there was any malicious intent. Only the OP knows that.

Agree. No wonder homophobia I still rampant with the excuses being made just because it was a girl that said it.