Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

Few months in possible maturity of the 8yo pales into insignificance of the 5 years of difference in maturity of the very angry 13 yo boy.

His sexuality is a red herring. It’s his behaviour which is the issue.

Family who didn't call her out and haven't apologised? Ye it came from them...

The language he's used is what they all use all the time at school and in their messaging. It is indeed horrible but the girl, however young, was very rude to start with. Again, though, she's very young and probably just repeating taunts and attitudes she's heard, she doesn't really know what she's doing.

I can understand the parents being very shocked at his language, but yes, absolutely, genuine friends and proper adults would have said ok all kids need to say sorry to each other, but the actual attack was the girls on him, and he only reacted. So really the girls needed to be told in no uncertain terms that it was dreadful to say what they had, and that if they insult and humiliate a friend like that, then they are quite likely to get a mouthful, or worse. Important lesson to learn.

Unfortunately your friends haven't done well here, in my opinion. I feel it's actually super mean, because your kid and you have a socially challenging situation to navigate, and they are supposed to be your friends, but instead, they've now ostracised and humiliated him even more. I would be v disappointed by my so-called friends.

Correction - I do not believe an 8 year old that said 'gay boy' has the understanding or intention to be homophobic and likely doesn't even realise the gravity of their action
And I believe the vast majority of 13 year olds recognise this too, immaturity or neurodivergance aside
You disagree?

I’m sorry to hear your Son is having a tough time, I have a boy the same age and one of his friends is gay.
Their school is a pretty large one where differences are celebrated i.e neurodiversity, sexuality and there are various clubs and groups to support all the children.
It always makes me feel so proud when my son comes home and chats about his friends, their differences and what they’ve been up to.
When I said I was surprised that someone had been brave enough to come out to the world at 12, my child was horrified that I went to a school in a time when this would not have been accepted.
The language your son used is unacceptable to say to anyone, especially an 8 year old. You’ve had a conversation about it and he should apologise to her for verbally lashing out.
Is there any clubs or hobbies he’s interested in that will increase his social circle?
He must feel very lonely and I’m sure that is why he reacted the way he did. It’s difficult to develop a thick skin and be able to brush off comments when you feel up against people’s attitudes everyday.

Telling everyone about his crushes? You mean mentioning them when his friends bring up theirs? (Which is normal) He doesn’t go round talking about it all the time.

11 and 13 year olds will be in the same groups outside of school, maybe even at school in extracurricular

It's perfectly normal for them to be friends

You're acting like he's 18

13 is way older than 8 and your son was the one more out of order here. Her parents were rightly angry. Your son needs to learn some resilience too.

I think they’re all way way way too young to be dealing with their sexuality and then expressing opinions over it. Maybe I’m naive but seriously he shouldn’t be sharing his sexuality really, whatever it is. Why does everyone need to know? Children don’t go round discussing how straight they are so why would he need to share.. I think you give his sexuality a ridiculous amount of importance at far too young an age.

He definitely shouldn’t be swearing at people. I think it would be wise to explain that people are offended by extreme over sharing and whilst grown ups make an effort to remain polite, children don’t understand and it’s best to be polite even in the face of rudeness.
Of course homophobia is completely unacceptable. But she is 8; does she have any concept of sexuality really? I highly doubt it; it’s all just playground speech at that age.
As an adult I couldn’t care less about someone’s sexuality and personal preferences- unless I’m dating them I really don’t need to know! I think your whole stance is OTT.

It's not the fact that she is a girl, but that she is so young. Although even if she was older his language was unacceptable. Being gay doesn't excuse bad manners.

It was a girl to a teen boy and this is MN. Teen boys are the Devil and can do no right

This.

You need to get a grip.

So if the 8 yos 11yo sister had responded by saying, “actually you fuck off you aggressive twat, leave my 8 yo sister alone”
I mean give a mouthful get a mouthful?

He was thinking of getting back into football which he used to play in primary school but he’s worried about being bullied. He has a lower self esteem than when he was younger because of people like my neighbour’s daughter.

I have teen boys and disagree. I'd be very disappointed in my lads if they called an 8 year old a stupid bitch and said fuck off to her. They are 5 years older than her.

I do think children these days are expected to deal with very adult themes about sexuality. The language is shocking from both of them, I’d hold the boy more responsible due to his age. There are five years between my eldest and youngest and I’d be very annoyed if he exploded like that at his little sister like that regardless of provocation.

The answer is surely you tell an adult 8 yo is being rude and she gets stuck with grown ups to be supervised. 13 & 11 yo get to hang out without annoying little sister.

If she made a racist comment would i need to be real or would she be a racist?

I dont know many 13 yos who would hang about with 11 yos.. this is Scotland where 11 yo would be primary p7 and 13 in second year of high school though, social death to hang about with primary school kids for a teen!

I have dc slightly older and younger than your son. The idea of them age 13 talking about crushes makes me laugh a bit (and would make them absolutely cringe!). Very few of their friends were thinking about their sexuality at 10 (10!!!! 10 is a child?!?) and at 13 very few talk about crushes etc. They have friends who are boys and girls and talk about a lot of random things but 13 is young at our school to be so vocal about sexuality and crushes.

Calling ANYONE a bitch is utterly unacceptable. An 8 year old won’t have the level of understanding that a 13 year old does. Also, he is a gay boy. She was maybe just using a teasing voice to state what he is? Especially if he’s talking in her earshot about boys he fancies? I wouldn’t be comfortable with a young teen talking about that in front of my children when they were younger.

Doesn't matter if your son thinks he’s gay or not, encouraging sexuality and sexual chat at 13 is really odd.

I would have demanded he sincerely apologised or face consequences.

I have a 14 year old DS and would be horrified if he spoke to a young child like that. There is simply no excuse. I expect him to be able to control his behaviour and treat people with respect even if others can’t.

If I was the mother of the 8 year old I would have done exactly the same, demanded that she apologised.

@TheNoisyDeer I don't think an 8 year old can come out with homophobic language unless they have heard it at home or at school, and I wonder if your so-called friends' reaction in whisking their children home was to get their youngest DD out of the way before she said "but this is what mummy and daddy always call him".

Your DS was out of order in using language like that around an 8 year old and he should apologise, but we understand how a 13 year old knows the language he used. There are more questions to be answered around the 8 year old's language.

The 8 year old needs to be made aware that her comments were unacceptable.
The behaviour of the 13yo is very worrying - that degree of verbal aggression towards an 8yo is vile. Made worse by his inability to reflect and understand that his behaviour was vilr.

So I get your child is dealing with a lot but his language was diabolical when dealing with a very young child. But then I would have expected the girl’s parents to immediately tell off their daughter too. It should have been a mutual apology.

But I would he having a serious chat with my son if that were me.

Some really odd takes here. According to some he's too young to have come out at 10, but I guarantee no one would say that a 10 year old boy shouldn't express that he likes girls. 11 and 13 year old discussing crushes isn't weird at all, does no one remember being that age?!

The 8 year old had clearly used it as an insult, so she should have been told to apologise but that doesn't excuse his response at all. Both should have apologised to eachother and been disciplined.