Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

Your son could have chosen better words of course, but he is a child himself and also dealing with a lot. If that was my 8yo she would be getting a VERY stern talking to about how unacceptable homophobia is.

@HowDoYouSpellThat This has what has annoyed me, they didn’t even acknowledge it, it was all DS’s fault in their eyes.

Whilst your son could have handled it better he is clearly dealing with a lot and is also still a child himself. I hope the neighbours also reflect on their children and how what they said was also inappropriate. I think it was an overreaction to leave tbh.

There's a big difference between a 13 year old who is either in year 9 or about to go into it, and a primary school eight year old. He absolutely shouldn't have reacted like that, and I'd be pissed off too.
The eight year old also needs talking to, but his reaction isn't acceptable.

But your son knows better at 13 than to tell a girl she’s a stupid bitch and to fuck off….

I agree that the 8 year old shouldn’t have said what she said either but there’s more accountability for an older child in my opinion

He called a little child a bitch. Jesus Christ, his misogyny is showing. So she either didn't use the right language because she is small, or at worst, very mildly teased him, so he got aggressive with her. She dented his pride and ego, so he booted off.
I wouldn't want him anywhere near my daughters either

It is understandable that he was upset, but a 13 year old using that language to an 8 year old is completely unacceptable whatever the circumstances.

@GregoryFluff so you draw the line at misogyny but homophobia (which is rooted in misogyny) is fair game 👍

No, he comes off much worse here. Is he always talking about crushes and boys?

I’d imagine this anger and attitude is why he struggles with friends too, not his sexuality.

The worst she did was call him a gay boy... He is a boy who is gay? Your son was a twat here op.

Both need pushing. However your son DENFINATELY knew his words would hurt and said them because he WANTED to hurt a younger child. That is DISPICABLE behaviour. If my son said that to our 8 year old God Daughter he'd have week where school work was the only use of tech and he didn't get free time.

As for whether the child knew how much her words would hurt, possibly. and she should certainly have a stern taking to about how that sort of talk is NOT right. If she really knew that it would hurt then there would be more consequences for her.

@TheNoisyDeer she's 8, a primary school child
He is thirteen, above the age of criminal responsibility. Absolutely more aware socially of what to say and not
Jesus, I think I know where he gets it from

The younger a child is the less they are expected to understand social rules.

an 8 year old is a lot lot younger than a 13 year old.

in addition some people consider swearing a lot worse than any level of homophobia or other issues.

obviously she shouldn’t have insulted him.

and he should have either told her off or walked away.

they both behaved badly but he’s a lot older so would be held to higher standards.

I don’t think an 8 year old is capable of actual homophobia. She very likely didn’t understand the true implications of what she was saying and just repeated something she heard on TV or in the playground. Yes, her parents need to deal with it and tell her in age appropriate terms why it’s not on. But you can not expect the same level of understanding from an 8 year old as a 13 year old, the latter of which I presume has been through (or is going through) puberty. Do you really not see the difference OP? Children say lots of stuff that isn’t PC. You can not compare their CHILD to your TEEN

How on earth is it okay for your 13 yo to tell an 8yo to ‘fuck off’?

There is no way this is real

The 9 year old a) started the argument and b) was offensive. Yes, he could have handled it better, but she insulted him in his own home. Looking at the parents’ reaction, it’s pretty clear where she got it from.
He was a bit rude, she was an absolutely horrible piece of work. Good riddance

Misogyny and homophobia are intentions, yes there are words associated with intentions, but NOT having those intentions doesn't prevent you saying the words. The 8 year old probably doesn't have homophobic intentions, but doesn't know not to say the word. Your 13 year old either HAS those intentions or knows not to say the word.

I'd have hoped DS would have handled that situation better, it's not on to swear at and call an 8 year old child a bitch when you are a teen.
I understand the context of background bullying he faces and her comment was completely unacceptable. But he should have told her that and then come to talk to you and her parents. Maybe he would have done if he was a year or so older or more mature, or if his peers had been more accepting of him.

The 8 year old girl, I can understand her being upset and her parents being upset about a much older boy swearing at her. A 13 year old boy probably does seem much older and closer to a grown up compared to her than he actually is. Removing her from the situation is a reasonable response. Expecting your DS to apologise for how he reacted is reasonable. She may have needed a bigger explanation of why what she said was so wrong before she could be expected to give a genuine apology to be honest.
If they're good people, then reach out and ask how she's feeling. I think focus for you should be (as I'm sure it is) supporting your son to find his feet with friendships. Outside of school how does he do with comnections from hobbies?

Your son comes off really badly here. Don't you think it is bad that he starts talking about who he has a crush on in front of an 8 year old?

Plus you seem to think him being gay overrides everything.

It is very possible that the 8 year old thought she was just being descriptive rather than trying to be insulting.

For you son to go straight to calling her a stupid bitch and telling her to fuck off, it completly different.

Neither misogyny or homophobia are ok, but the 8 year old wouldn’t know the full impact of what she is saying but your son did!

I would find an 11 year old and a 13 year old discussing “crushes” an inappropriate conversation.

Calling someone a gay boy. Also vile.

Telling a child to eff off. Disgusting.

No one is coming out of this well.

There is no homophobia from the 8 year old just someone who needs to have a conversation about the difference between gay boy and a boy who is gay.

your sons reaction was inappropriate and you should get on top of that before he picks on someone who is capable of picking back.

he should care how old she is as it makes a massive difference to the whole situation.

He's 13 and telling an 8 year old girl to fuck off and calling her a stupid bitch. He's completely out of order and should be ashamed of himself.

I don’t think it overrides everything, I’ve already told him off about it and asked him to apologise.

She's 8 for goodness sake. Your sons behaviour was absolutely unacceptable.