AIBU to ask a friend’s guest not to join private breakfast?

[Ano1n]

Regular meet up on a weekend morning for coffee with a group of female friends - not a formal arrangement and anywhere between 5 - 10 of us.
End of last year one friend brought a former colleague with her - who is an utter boor who inserts, interrupts & talks over any conversation & added her to the group WhatsApp. This has changed the dynamics of the group & people privately message more rather than use the group message.
Yesterday morning I met another friend for breakfast & planned to join them for coffee after. Said person was early & went to plonk herself down when I stopped her by saying it was a private conversation & I would join them later. Cue a load of blustering, marching off & slamming down. Really couldn’t be arsed with it so we settled bill and left.
Last night the intro friend puts a message on the group how we are about women supporting women & bullying won’t be tolerated!!!
Have responded back a few times (not actually sent) as the theme is fluff off but am I in the wrong here? Is asking her to leave bullying or is she rude for plonking herself uninvited?

This.

I'd just think oh, obviously Sue has brought along a friend who'll be having coffee with us but they're having breakfast first. So it would seem weird to walk past them and sit on another table.

It wouldn't have entered my head to think Sue has obviously come to the same coffee shop we're having group coffee in just for a private breakfast with this woman who is now going to leave.

If I was sent away with a curt 'this is private I'll join you later' I'd have been embarrassed and thought Sue was rude AF.

OP - you don't like the woman and were rude AF. Stropping off and leaving because the woman you don't like and were rude to seemed offended makes you look entirely like an arse. And a bit of a bully.

That's not the issue though.

The friend of the OP was not part of the group and the OP explained they were having a private conversation/breakfast and she would join them later for coffee.

The OP was polite.

Confusing.

There’s nothing polite about telling someone you are meeting at 10am, who naturally thought you were just early too, to go away and sit somewhere else.

Would be interesting to know if a different friend that’s not a ‘boor’ had turned up early would they have been banished and spoken to firmly for assuming that they were welcome to sit?

How do you know she was polite?

I would address this in the group chat, she didn't do it privately to you she did it to everyone. I would apologise but explain and say you were having breakfast with a friend and as planned joined everyone for the coffee morning at the agreed time. Intro friend joined the breakfast but you were having a private conversation and so told her you would join her later. You didn't mean to cause offence and in future will have your breakfast at another location.

I wouldn't let her use the word bullying and not address what actually happened. Keep it factual.

I think knowing that this is a coffee meet up and you were having breakfast I would have asked if it was okay to join but also say or are you having a private chat? Cover all bases and being polite.

I suspect the group chat has dropped off because you don't like her, want to exclude her and so you've started private messaging the others making everyone feel awkward.

I guess we all have different ideas of what is polite. If I’m meeting a friend at 10, arrive early and spot her talking to someone then im assuming she’s just early too. I’d of course approach, she’s arranged to meet me there, why would I assume she’s has scheduled in friends in hour time slots? And then if I sat down and greeted them and then was told - ‘you can’t sit with us!’ I’d be really embarrassed and yes it would feel like mean girls.

OP made an error scheduling back to back friend dates, not anticipating someone may turn up early

Gosh this sounds like some high maintenance nonsense.

It’s fine and reasonable to have breakfast with your friend (even at the same venue!) and to point the others from the group away til the coffee appointment time (oh great you’re here - can you grab that table for 6?). This isn’t about ‘women supporting women’ it’s about having manners to leave people having private conversations alone.

Id just reply with a ‘Surprised it came off that way and sorry if wires were crossed. I was meeting a friend for breakfast first for a private conversation. I thought I had clearly explained that to Sue when she interrupted us. I’ll catch you up next time - that’s next Sunday at 2pm?’

Where you’ve gone a bit wrong is letting Sue tell the tale and paint you as the bad guy.

It sounds like your attitude is the issue.

Oh actually Mary, we're just in the middle of something. Can you grab a table for us and Jess when she arrives and I'll be over at 10. Thanks.

That's all it took.

Regardless of what others think of her, surely this sort of group is about tolerance. Yes put boundaries in etc. but yo u don't need to become the kind of person others dislike

It is coming across as “there my friends hands off”
people are allowed to to have other friends

That was rude of you though the'friend' was a bit pushy. You both seem equally determined to get your own way.

New member may have thought you were early too and that was where the group was meeting.Or as you said just pushy hard to tell.
Did you politely steer her away or was your tone nasty as to embarrass her into the bargain.

Either way I think your group is nearly done and you are running the risk of being blamed.

I mean if I turned up early for a coffee meet and saw someone was already there of course I would join them.

I’d assume they were bringing a new friend to the coffee meet up.

i’d be pretty pissed off with you.

next time don’t back to back your meetings in a public place.

I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the new person. It can be really difficult to ingratiate yourself with a group of people who all already know each other, as nobody other than the "intro" friend, as you say, actually wants you to be there. Maybe she's trying too hard to be lively and interesting and has come across boorish to you. Maybe not, but just offering a benefit-of-the-doubt perspective.

As to this specific incident, I don't think you were a bully but I think you were inconsiderate, possibly by accident! I agree with others that if I had turned up 20 minutes early to a café and someone from the group I was meeting was already there, I would absolutely assume they were also early and I could join them. I would probably assume you were inviting your friend to the meet up, just as she was invited along last year - and she might have been quite glad to see that happening, as it would be someone for her to talk to that was also an outsider to the main group, if you see what I mean.

I'd apologise for causing offence, explain what happened and that you just got wires crossed, and arrange separate meetings in separate locations in future.

I don't think the other woman was being pushy or determined to get her own way.

She went to sit down because she was expecting to meet OP for coffee and probably assumed the other person at the table would be joining them for coffee too. And she was rudely sent away.

I'm betting the rest of the group, or at least most, like her.

It does depend on your tone / if you said sorry but .. would you mind but …apologetically … then she is rude as you are allowed to have private conversations

This is how you end up with alternative WhatsApp groups 😣

I think this too.

OP doesn't like the new girl. On this occasion she made it obvious. Offence has been taken.

Don't have a bloody private breakfast meeting in what is a well established, frequented, group space, when you have arranged an imminent meet-up which includes the new girl. Of course she joined you.

You were well rude.

It depends......did she think you and your friend were there for the bigger meet up or had you said you were breakfasting with another friend and would join them for coffee after. If she was aware of the latter then no, you did nothing wrong but if she thought you were there already for the group meet up then that's a bit different.

I don't really understand why some folk are saying you're jealous of her, there's always people in life we don't gel with and don't particularly want to socialise with.

Me too.

I don't think the accusations of bullying are from this one incident. I think it's that OP has spent 6 months making it obvious she doesn't like this woman and trying to engineer excluding her by privately messaging people instead of using the coffee group WhatsApp.

Now OP has been so rude and embarrassed this woman in public, the rest of the group or at least the one who introduced the new person have thought enoughs enough and made it clear they don't like it.

Was there nowhere else you could have had breakfast? Did you really expect her to see you, but ignore you and then sit somewhere else? Surely you'd see that she would think that you were early and join you? You were rude. Challenge her when she does something, not just take a massive dislike to her and be rude and resentful that she's joining you.

Potentially BOTH were rude. It's understandable if the other woman misread the situation especially since all of this happened in public space. Perhaps she should have been more cautious if she didn't know your breakfast companion, and if she clearly became angry/sulky (and that's not just your interpretation) then she overreacted. Depending on the urgency of the conversation that was interrupted, you may have been totally justified but it also comes across like you're predisposed to judge ANYTHING the other woman does in a negative light - even calling her "friend's guest" is telling; she's a de facto member of your meet-up group at this point - plus your language does sound like you were reprimanding her rather than simply asking for space.

None of this is "bullying" though, which is a serious matter and shouldn't be trivialised. So if you are sure that the weird lecture-y message from Intro Friend refers specifically to your asking the other woman to leave you alone to finish your conversation and not to your (and possibly others') behaviour in general then I would push back. Intro Friend's putting the message in the group chat is stirring - she should have approached you directly if she really didn't trust her friend to resolve things with you on her own, and given you a chance to explain the context. Plus the "women supporting each other" cant sounds a bit infantilising and misogynist; of course women can and should call out each other's poor behaviour.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the theme is fluff off", but it sounds like you should reconsider the wording of the messages you've written if you're going to send one, and maybe take it offline.

If I was this new woman and saw one of the group having breakfast with someone I’d never met before I’d go to our usual group table and just acknowledge you on the assumption that was a separate thing. Or at the very least ASK if I could join but I don’t think I could do that unless you were one of my besties - no more likely I’d go up to you and say ‘hi Izzy I’m a bit early but I’ll just sit at our normal table’, and then if no ‘oh please join us’ was forthcoming that’s what I’d do!
Have you spoken to the woman who intros her to the group? Did she ask if it was ok? Bit awkward now - you can’t exactly expel her!