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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trans widow and feel so much pain for her

385 replies

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 16:10

I know this is not actually my grief but DH has a good friend who we have known throughout our marriage, let’s call him Steve.

Steve was married to Jess and had two children.

We spent a lot of time with them over the years. Camping trips, dinners, bbqs, birthdays. Steve was your classic sort of male really. He was quite attractive, funny, polite, well educated and both he and Jess very successful, had a beautiful home.

Anyway getting to the point. Almost out of the blue (to us at least), a few years ago Steve began transitioning. He is not short of money and has had facial surgery multiple times, paid for himself. He is extremely supportive of the trans community and recognises he is lucky he can access this sort of treatment.

Jess stayed with him through this, went to the appointments, talked to their kids about what this meant (primary age) and tried to stick in the marriage. It’s now broken down and they are doing their best to be great co parents to their children.

Jess’ grief is immeasurable. This couple always seemed so in love, so respectful of one another. She says she feels like her husband has died yet she has to experience this new person in his place, like he’s been stolen from her. I too have felt this obviously to a much lesser degree, but its truly life changing to even be affected by it even a little bit.

I should add that I have no strong views on what or who people choose to be but I suppose I am shocked that a person can live a lie for so long and especially put their children through it? DH has tried to be supportive but I think struggles more with Steve’s new interests more than anything, as in they don’t have much to talk about anymore as Steve is consumed by this (I suppose understandably) and his focus on what makes him a woman rather than anything else.

I don’t know what I am asking really. Just feel grief for Jess and for DH and wonder if others have been through similar how they navigated it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BobbieTables · Yesterday 16:12

I'd keep your nib out.

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 16:14

BobbieTables · Yesterday 16:12

I'd keep your nib out.

@BobbieTables we do but we’ve also known them for almost 22 years now

OP posts:
Minasama · Yesterday 16:15

Gosh that’s hard OP.

Two of my friends have been widowed young recently in the most tragic of circumstances, one has young children, the other has teenagers.

I think that compared to being an actual widow, at least this family still have the kind person that was their dad present in their lives. They may look different but they are still alive. That’s the main thing.

MrsPerfect12 · Yesterday 16:15

Support Jess, she had been used all this time.

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 16:17

Minasama · Yesterday 16:15

Gosh that’s hard OP.

Two of my friends have been widowed young recently in the most tragic of circumstances, one has young children, the other has teenagers.

I think that compared to being an actual widow, at least this family still have the kind person that was their dad present in their lives. They may look different but they are still alive. That’s the main thing.

@Minasama that’s true. There’s parts of him that are obviously still very much him. I think it’s feeling like there’s been a lie all this time is what’s hardest for DH

OP posts:
Limeandfigs · Yesterday 16:21

I know it's the fashionable phrase but the use of 'widow' here really grates. No-one has died. The children still have their father. I know you're just using the common terminology OP, it's not a dig at you personally.

Ultimately both Steve and Jess are long term friends and all you can do is support them and their family. The breakdowns of relationships for whatever reason are always hard on everyone when you've been together for so long.

StSpiridian · Yesterday 16:28

Many dads who say they are women after fathering children get very angry if anyone refers to them by what they call their 'deadname' (see the Children of Transitioenrs website below) so it's perhaps understandable why their wives call themselves 'transwidows' . There is a website your friend might find useful:
for her:
https://www.transwidowsvoices.org/
and

to help her (and others who work with them eg teachers) understand what the children are experiencing:
https://childrenoftransitioners.org/

There is also a long running support thread here on mumsnet for women like your friend you might be able to find (sorry I can't remember what it's called @tinsel )

Trans Widows Voices | Sharing Women's Experiences | Women's Group | UK

A trans widow is a woman whose male partner believes that they have a gender identity other than “man” or who cross dresses. Women in this situation report feeling like their male partner has died. Trans Widows Voices is a womens group that exists to...

https://www.transwidowsvoices.org

StSpiridian · Yesterday 16:32

I think it might be @TinselAngel not Tinsel who is part of the support group on mumsnet but sorry can't remember...Hopefully she will see this thread...

Dankanddrear · Yesterday 16:33

I understand how it's hard for you and your DH, and awful for Jess.

I think you need to support her as much as you can, and let her know that you're on her side - there will be people, I imagine her ex-husband included, who will expect her to support him in living his authentic life etc etc, but in coming out he's blown up her life and future.

His trans identity seems very central to his life, so she may feel that his life with her is being written off as an aberration.

In practical terms, I hope you can continue to go on family trips with her and her children - don't let her ex insist that he has to be included, or that he gets to keep the friendship.

Izzyink · Yesterday 16:38

She is not a widow, He hasn't died.

StSpiridian · Yesterday 16:41

found this explanation about why women in this situation call themselves 'transwidows' on their website:

What Is A Trans Widow?
A trans widow is a woman (usually heterosexual) whose male partner or husband believes that they have a gender identity other than “man” or who cross dresses. Often women also report having experienced that their husband or partner has autogynephilia (AGP).

Women in this situation report feeling like their male partner has died. This is particularly the case if their partner or husband came out as trans' and decided to transition. The transformation is usually so complete that their partner is unrecognisable as the man they married, both in looks and in personality. The woman will be forbidden from calling her husband by his previous “dead name”.

Women in this situation need a label to gather around and to identify with. “Trans widow” is the name that we have chosen and it is enabling us to find each other. This site is not currently a support group, we exist to share the experiences of trans widows. However, this is something that might be developed in the future, time and resources permitting.

Pronoun Use
For clarity this site uses correct sex pronouns. We also support women having the language to accurately describe their own experiences and to represent their reality.

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 16:41

Izzyink · Yesterday 16:38

She is not a widow, He hasn't died.

Then as above, why Is Their the use trans term “deadnaming”?

Soontobesleeping · Yesterday 16:47

So the husband is now living out his sexual fantasy and spending his family’s money on doing so?

The widow bit comes from the trans community idea that the ‘old them’ is now dead. If you are upset about it blame the trans community not the wife abandoned by the narcissistic husband.

StSpiridian · Yesterday 16:56

As well as the support group on mumsnet there are some online groups run by genspect but don't know if they are for wives- your friend could ask.
genspect.org/support/

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 16:58

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Yesterday 16:41

Then as above, why Is Their the use trans term “deadnaming”?

I can actually spell… 😳 distracted by toddler climbing on me! why is THERE the trans term dead name in use was my intention to post!

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 16:58

Soontobesleeping · Yesterday 16:47

So the husband is now living out his sexual fantasy and spending his family’s money on doing so?

The widow bit comes from the trans community idea that the ‘old them’ is now dead. If you are upset about it blame the trans community not the wife abandoned by the narcissistic husband.

@Soontobesleeping this is what DH feels is the case as he says he has always had ‘interesting’ sexual fantasies. But I am not sure I think he genuinely finds joy in being seen as a woman. The fact there’s so much confusion over it is what has made this so difficult all round for their family

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · Yesterday 17:01

Poor Jess, I hope she hasn’t felt forced to make her children call this confused man their other mum or pretend he’s now a woman. Because that is abuse.

Larrythecatforpm · Yesterday 17:02

Support Jess, poor woman has been lied to all those years. I don’t think I would be able to continue being friends with Steve.

Eyesopenwideawake · Yesterday 17:05

Would you prefer that he'd left her for a long term AP? Every marriage breakup is difficult. I'm not sure why this situation is any different.

StSpiridian · Yesterday 17:05

Yes, the UK Supreme Court said it's emotional abuse of the child if any transparent lies to their child about this (eg a dad who says he's mum, or a mum who lies she's dad) ..the ECHR just found against these trans demands too- there's another mumsnet thread about it.

StrangeGree · Yesterday 17:07

Is using the word widow here really appropriate!!

apart from the distaste of lumping these poor women in the same category as women who have had to deal with terminal cancer etc in their spouses who wanted to stay alive…

I'd feel ripped off if my partner started morphing into an alternative type of human being, yes. BUT. Lots of women lose the man they thought they married, people change and turn out to be quite different from how they presented. Just because it involves hormone injections diesnt make it any different, to my mind, to any other marriage destroying choices, like porn and alcohol addiction.

Naunet · Yesterday 17:07

Izzyink · Yesterday 16:38

She is not a widow, He hasn't died.

But 'dead name' is ok?

Hotandbithered · Yesterday 17:08

AnneLovesGilbert · Yesterday 17:01

Poor Jess, I hope she hasn’t felt forced to make her children call this confused man their other mum or pretend he’s now a woman. Because that is abuse.

@AnneLovesGilbert they call her mummy (new name)

OP posts:
StrangeGree · Yesterday 17:09

Naunet · Yesterday 17:07

But 'dead name' is ok?

No, it’s stupid. Another example of stupidity culture. Self aggrandising melodramatic terminology. Almost like they are Larry Grayson types,

AutumnAllTheWay · Yesterday 17:09

I stand in solidarity with trans widows and the term they have chosen to use to describe themselves

The husband they made a life with is gone.

Ive read the threads and what they go through is awful.