Decoy Wedding?!

[McSteamyorMcdreamy]

Apologies I haven't gone through any individual topic to see if there are threads.

But with all the shit in the world going on, and true escapism is anyone else thoroughly excited about the "potential" TS/TK nuptials?

I find I'm far too invested! Pathetic to be so interested? Very possibly but I don't care!

Again apologies if there's already something going... If there is can someone share!

I felt that your original post was misogynistic, sexist and factually incorrect.
That my interpretation of what you wrote. You used tired old tropes that have historically been aimed at women to undermine them. Even if that wasn’t your intention it doesn’t really matter. That’s how it came across.
Those tired old insults fall down when applied to TS but that doesn’t stop people who have clearly not engaged with her or her music using them against her. Quite frankly, it’s lazy.

Perhaps you do just enjoy insulting everyone but I think you’re being a little disingenuous to ignore that fact that women in the public eye have historically been criticised by society in a way that men rarely are.

Not sure who that was directed at?

On the offchance it was me, then nothing passive aggressive about my posts. However, posting unpleasant comments without the courtesy of quoting the poster to which you are replying IS actually passive aggressive.

No I’m saying that if multiple people picked up
on my use of language I’d reflect on that. It’s not just about the word vacuous. It was your whole approach to criticising something you know nothing about.
instead of just saying you don’t like a particular artist you used insults that could be perceived as misogyny or sexism.

And building your fortune on being bitter about various high profile relationships and calling out the men involved (when people know who you are writing about) is something that more female artists than male do.

When male artists do it then they are vacuous too

You really are so desperate to have the last word aren't you?

Here. Take it. I'll leave you and the other relentless poster to shout alone.

Well done for quoting - that was very helpful.

How you feel is not relevant. You are entitled to your interpretation and I am entitled to tell you that, in this instance, your interpretation is incorrect.

I have explained to you countless times that I apply the term vacuous equally to both male and female songwriters.

What happened in the past is in the past. I am a person in the here and now.

And I'll tell you this I am not going to stop using the word vacuous because you take umbrage with it and shall continue to apply it across the board regardless of the sex of the person I'm criticising.

If a woman is vacuous, I shall say so ditto a man.

Does that make someone vacuous though? Not necessarily. You might not agree with someone writing about an Ex but that doesn’t make it vacuous. The writing can still be high quality and intelligent.

And do male artists get widespread criticism for writing about relationships? In the same way high profile women do? I remember some radio dj’s refusing to play TS during the eras tour because ‘she just writes about ex -boyfriends’. I’ve not heard of male artists being subjected to the same but perhaps you can enlighten me as to when that’s happened?

Ironic that someone who STILL isn't able to follow the extremely simple fact that TS has whole albums of songs not about her exes would call anyone else vacuous. What's actually in your head? Not much if you can't even follow that.

History matters though.
How society uses language matters. You hinted at being gender critical earlier, surely you can understand why the use of language is important? Especially when it comes to women’s rights?

You might use historically gendered insults towards both men and women but that doesn’t erase how they’ve been used in the past. And doesn’t make it right!

Nobody is stopping you using the word vacuous- stop being dramatic.

The irony is that I never described TS as vacuous only her songs. She's a financial genius it seems.

What happened in the past is in the past.

I shall continue to use the word vacuous if I see fit and apply it to both sexes.

You are correct. I am extremely GC.

Genuine question. What makes her songs vacuous?

Good question, but I doubt you will get a coherent or honest answer. This commenter is almost certainly basing her opinion on TS music entirely on having heard Shake It Off and possibly Bad Blood on the radio a few times. She clearly knows nothing about TS extensive and remarkable musical catalogue since her characterisation of TS song-writing and subject matter is so ludicrously detached from the reality. It hardly seems worth arguing with someone who has spent ages slating an artist of whose work she knows nothing as vacuous and facile and her fans as simple-minded without actually hearing much of that artists music, but here I am anyway!

@MickyMoonshine It's just not serious music in my opinion.
That song about her husband's penis was embarrassingly bad.

Maybe I'm not looking at this through the same lens as you are.
I'm honestly not looking at it through a gender lens.

I am very much a music fan and that is where my thoughts on this come from.

It is not particularly misogynistic to me to describe her songs as vacuous as I say the same things about men.
That terrible Shotgun song. Awful.

Indeed I said that what vacuous, self-indulgent tosh 'Three lions' is to my dh just today.

Equally I say that women can be excellent songwriters e. g. Kate Bush, Chrissie Hynde.

So when somebody says it's misogynistic to criticise her music I'm like wtf?!

I am only still on this thread because of the misogyny accusation and my wish to defend myself against it.

I am going to leave it now because I do feel I'm spoiling it for others and I feel a bit bad for that. Though aibu was probably not the best place for it to be fair.

I don't wish to argue about it any more.

So she's vacuous because she wrote one silly tongue-in-cheek song that you didn't find funny? Nevermind the other 200 and something songs she's written.

My question was why her songs were vacuous. That’s all.

Does music have to be serious to not beconsidered vacuous? I don’t understand how you can declare all
of her songs vacuous when you’ve clearly only heard a small sample. That’s just lazy.

I’ve not called you misogynistic for not liking her songs. A fact you continue to ignore. I’ve made it clear that it’s absolutely fine to not like her music. It’s also not misogynistic to call a song vacuous but it is lazy to declare a whole catalogue of songs vacuous when you’ve not even listened to them.
I considered it misogynistic to call them vacuous because she writes about relationships- as I’ve said that’s rarely a criticism levelled at men when they write about relationships.
I considered it misogynistic when you referred to her outfit choices and dressing for the male gaze. It was also untrue.

It all felt like an attempt to say ‘look how cool I am, I listen to serious music’. When you can just say it’s not to your taste. Being unkind is an active choice.

I am a very serious music fan. Music has always been a huge passion of mine, and I think my love of TS is very much compatible with my life-long devotion to great music. TS is very much the real deal as far as I am concerned, a proper old-school song-writer and a true lyrical poet.
Trying to suggest that Wood is in any representative of her work is ludicrous and shows you know almost nothing about her music. If you did you would know that Wood is notable as being the only even vaguely sexually explicit song in her entire extensive back catalogue and it is clearly a light-hearted Sabrina Carpenter pastiche.
As for the accusations that her music is not serious, I would ask you to listen to her two 2020 indiefolk sister albums, folklore and evermore, I think you will find they will challenge the incorrect and unfair conclusions you have drawn about her music.

I also have to wonder why someone would go out of their way to post on a thread about an artist they don’t like just to tell everyone how terrible they think they are. When that thread is full of people who do like that person and her music.

What purpose does it serve? Other than to be unkind?

It. was. a. jumping. off. point. for. one. phonics. lesson. No more, no less.

The point was the phonics.

I guess you can't seem to understand that.

It wasn't about her wedding. It was actually about using a sound from her name, if you want to be technical.

You seem to focus relentlessly on a single detail you've picked up on (sort of made up in this instance) and struggle with overall context. I suspect that's an issue not limited to mumsnet.

Precisely. I am decidedly not a fan of a certain famous band who got back together and played some high profile gigs in the UK last year. However, I somehow managed to refrain from joining threads where people were discussing their excitement about these shows to tell them they were all idiots because I think the band in question are terrible and I consider myself to be some kind of unquestionable arbiter of objective musical good taste! I was just happy for friends and family, and strangers, who were excited about seeing one of their favourite bands reform, the fact that, personally, I'd have needed to be paid a considerable sum to go near one of their shows, was pretty irrelevant to other' people's enthusiasm. I accept that we all like different things and that my taste is not superior to someone else's, which seems a bit of an arrogant stance to take to me!

I didn't do Latin at my comp, either. I was going to write Mandarin but Latin is shorter. Talk about insanely sensitive!

Yes, she said that before she was engaged. Doesn't mean she was going to stick to it always. The bags weren't just Dior, they were by the specific Dior designer who was doing her dress, and she used them in the months when her dress was being made. Total Easter eggs. Two of them.

Well, it would have been nice to see a photo when it was all going on. I feel the moment is over now and it's back to work tomorrow. Mean way to treat all the Swifties who are so loyal to her and put her where she is. They must be going crazy. (I'm not a Swiftie, I just like her, many of her songs although not all, and I do love a wedding dress.)

So the poster in question didn’t say she was excited and that her class was invested? And her next class was almost invested? What part am I making up? I’m only going by what I read.

There are people on this thread talking about two people as if they know them and they are privy to special information about it - if intelligent adults are doing this then it has to start somewhere. It’s a shame that it starts so early, that’s all.

If it makes you all happy to hero worship a pop star and talk about her ‘not egging her life’ (whatever that means) then you crack on. Feel free to ignore any comments that don’t accord with your own opinion.

My husband and I are devoted Swifties, as are a number of our friends. I don't feel she owes me anything as she already shared her amazing music with us, so has given me far more than I have given her! I don't feel entitled to a piece of her wedding day on top of the music.
Having said that, I'd be lying if we hadn't been messaging each other frantically with wedding speculation over the last few weeks. Though there is always a great deal of esoteric TS chat happening around here so it's business as usual really. We'll be back to predictions about debut TV next week!